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PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 3:54 pm 
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About the problems of Christian: I looked into it, and it seems that his problem can be solved easilty by running a batch "search and replace" utility over his files. I directed him to a suitable utility. (He uses a Mac, and I am using windows, so I am not really much of help in providing a walk-through)

About the recreations in France:
Surely it is very simple: French law does not provide for replica cars. I have not studied the problem in every detail, but I will try and investigate the possibilities in NL. (after the storm is over, that is. I am spending way too much time arranging other things for the site right now)

In the UK it seems to be fairly simple as well. How about sending the car to the UK, getting it road registered there, then sending it back to France? Or register it as a kit-car?
Sure, I understand the replica owners want them to be registered as "Bugatti" but isn;t that the source of many problems these days?

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 4:28 pm 
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Guys, don't panic. Let us see what options there are. If possible, I think we have to keep as much as information as possible. But on the other hand, I agree with Herman that it is best to have different levels of authorisation, so that moderators can follow what is going on and invert damage.

There are a few options:
- getting the link back between Christians database and the Wiki. Christian, do you have more information for me about your database? What type? How did you make a link between the database and the cards in the Wiki?

- getting different levels of authorisation in the existing Wiki on Bugattibuilder, just like the new one at www.bugattiregister.com. Herman, for both Wiki's you use the MediaWiki software. Logically thinking it has to be possible to get the same functions in both.

- finding out if it is possible to export and import data into a wiki. Maybe there even is conversion software.

Regards, Jeroen

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 5:02 pm 
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I find Lazarus' latest post quite thought provoking. Could anyone reasonably object to an owner wishing to remain anonymous? Perhaps such an owner's wishes could be quietly respected, you know the sort of thing I'm talking about, a polite e-mail to Herman requesting the removal of an owner's name from Wiki to prevent anymore trouble with the French tax and licensing authorities. To me Bugattibuilder should be about enjoyment for all Bugatti enthusiasts, owners and non-owners alike. I would certainly hate to be responsible for someone losing their car! Needless to say, my generosity does not extend to those little charmers who defiled Wiki. I do not care what they lose.

Which brings me rather conveniently to my next point (Herman, if this is going off-topic, feel free to move it to another forum), the difference between a fake and a replica/recreation. I have no intention of again going down the route of trying to define what is a replica, to me it as indefinable as the concept of originality, but differentiating such a creation from a fake is a rather simple matter : the differences does not lie with the cars but rather with the owners, or more specifically, the intention of the owners.

Case in point, a while ago we had a discussion on the French Forum about a very beautiful T43 dual-cowl Tourer. I now know that this car was based on a T38 frame fitted with a new T43 engine and new coachwork. Nothing wrong so far, a very beautiful creation. The fakery started the moment this car was put on the market wearing the chassis plate/identity of a long lost T43, a totally fake provenance and six fictitious previous owners. People building Bugattis from a combination of near-scrap original components and reproduction items should be encouraged. Tourers already scrapped should donate their remaining components to replicas, and these should be presented and enjoyed as such. Scrapping a Galibier is, of course, another matter entirely, but I digress. Replica builders are the embodiment of the craftsman as artist ; fakers are criminals, pure and simple. And if a country like France makes it near impossible for the former to legitimise their creations, I say let us be prepared to help in protecting them. The latter must, as a matter of principle, be reported to their country's law enforcement authorities, fraud is fraud is illegal throughout the civilised world. An artist is an artist. A criminal should be a prisoner.

A man building a T37 for his daughter should be admired. A man trying to sell a recreated T43 as the genuine article should be prosecuted.

And while I'm at it, you know that old argument about whether a T38 frame, suitably adapted, could be used as the basis for a T43? Do yourself a favour, ask the owner of a genuine T43 if you can. Unless I'm very much mistaken, to a man they will all give the same reply : "No, it cannot be done. Not well anyway."

Kind Regards
Johan


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 5:02 pm 
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Exporting a page and importing it in another WIKI is simple. It needs to be organised, however, so things do not go haywire. After the move, the pages on bugattibuilder need to be deleted.

Adapting the database of Christian is fairly simple as well: They are text documents per chassis number. In the text document Christian placed a link to the corresponding page on the Bugattibuilder WIKI. Now he has:
Code:
http://www.bugattibuilder.com/wiki/index.php?title=363


This should be changed to
Code:
http://www.bugattiregister.com/wiki/index.php?title=363


And this for approx 2800 entries. Fairly simple using a batch "search and replace" utility. Probably not more then 10 minutes of work. However, Christian needs some help with that, preferably in French, and from someone who also uses a Mac.

By then all is sorted out, except for different levels of users.

It is not possible to allow access for non-registered users. (legal matters)

In MEDIAWIKI, it is not possible to have other user levels, except for top-level users, which can do much more (useless) stuff.

Normal users already can do anything that is needed (reading and editing) and this usually does not cause any harm. Also, if someone tries and delete many pages, they are restored within minutes. It is just annoying.

Also still in the works is a working Email system. All Email systems on the server work, but the one of the WIKI. For some reason I do not get it rolling at the moment. I will need to dive into that. Then it is also possible to force users to use a confirmed E-mail address.

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Last edited by Herman on Wed Feb 18, 2009 5:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 5:03 pm 
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Herman again we both post at exactly the same moment. Weird.


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 Post subject: 4 into 3 does go !
PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 5:29 pm 
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There is a certain T43 in Austria which I built using the parts including the chassis of a T44.I curved the chassis using my " Jim Crowe" a tool usually used for bending railway lines.No it will never be exactly like a T43 frame but you do need to crawl underneath with a tape measure to see the difference.I wonder if that car is on wiki ?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 5:31 pm 
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bugatti69 wrote:
mes fiches utilisent:

TexEdit Version 1.4
Editions de fichiers aux formats RTF, Word, HTML, Unicode et texte
(Document RTFD (RTF avec pièces jointes)

pour ordinateur Apple Imac Power PC G5
système Mac OS X version 10.4.11

Image

Image


Basicly simple text documents (whether .doc, rtf or other) which should easily be handled by any search and replace utility. Now just someone who can help Christian doing it.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 6:24 pm 
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Christian,

Could you e-mail me two or three of these files you created? Then I can try and test to convert the URL. I will send you my e-mail address in a PM.

Regards, Jeroen

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 7:06 pm 
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Johan Buchner wrote:
I find Lazarus' latest post quite thought provoking. Could anyone reasonably object to an owner wishing to remain anonymous? Perhaps such an owner's wishes could be quietly respected, you know the sort of thing I'm talking about, a polite e-mail to Herman requesting the removal of an owner's name from Wiki to prevent anymore trouble with the French tax and licensing authorities.


I couldn't disagree more (no offence Johan). An owner requesting (or demanding like in the last days) to have information deleted is censorship. It goes against everything a Wiki stands for. It is about freedom of speech. Remember, this information is public (books, registers, programmes of meetings etc.).

Regards, Jeroen

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 7:10 pm 
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The WIKI is not public anymore. It has drawbacks, but an advantage is that protection of the privacy of individuals is less of an issue. Dutch law makes a very nice exception there.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 7:23 pm 
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Does that mean we can put some names back in?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 7:30 pm 
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yes, at least on the www.bugattiregister.com site.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 7:35 pm 
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Hallelujah !!!!!!!!!!

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 7:40 pm 
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No offense taken Jeroen, this is debate, pure and simple. Under ordinary circumstances I fully agree with you, but we are dealing with a patently ludicrous law, which criminalises love for Bugatti. If the only way that a French citizen can legally own a bitsa Bugatti is by falsifying a history, then such a law is patently unjust. And we are not in a position to change laws. If we accept that freedom of speech is an inalienable right, then it is my fervent belief that we should face up to the responsibilities of this right.

Allow me to illustrate, I have never had the slightest hesitation to express my deep and passionate disapproval of Ralph Lauren's murder of EXK 6, nor have I ever kept quiet about my loathing for the crass vulgarity of his tame and useful idiot, Paul Russell. What that man did to the ex-Bill Serri Alfa Romeo, the Count Trossi SSK, EXK 6 and the rest of the Lauren cars is nothing short of nefarious villainy. But, the American system of jurisprudence does not criminalise their actions, nor does it criminalise Peter Mullin for blatantly faking the identity of the lost Atalante 57492 to legitimise his replica T57S Roadster. Nor will the Federal Government of the USA arrest, charge and prosecute the American Bugatti Club for their silent acceptance of this heinous immorality.

Just as importantly, the South African Government will not prosecute me for referring to them as debauched rapists of a precious automotive heritage. In France, the law is so draconian that it turns ordinary enthusiasts to act in desperation. Speak as I wish yes, but causing legal trouble for a man guilty of no more than a passionate love? No Jeroen, I choose not to. And let us keep in mind, France is the country that made the guillotine famous.

However, I will die defending your right to speak your mind. We both, after all, are citizens of countries which values the rights and the freedoms of us both. How harshly do you want to punish those unfortunate enough to be born in a country that has turned bureaucracy into a weapon of mass destruction?

With Deep and Abiding Respect,
Johan


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 7:47 pm 
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Before drawing conclusions, I would like to learn more about the registration process for these cars.

In NL you can easily register any homebuilt car as it is, a kitcar. Registering it as a Bugatti might be more difficult.

How is that in France?
Of course, converting a pile of parts into a Bugatti is financially more appealing then registering it as a kitcar.

I would like to investigate this a bit more after cleaning up the recent pile of ****.

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