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 Post subject: Bugatti gears ?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2012 5:44 pm 
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Joined: Sun Aug 16, 2009 3:17 am
Posts: 1041
Location: Baden-Baden Germany
can anyone say anything about the Bugatti gears. For example ,Bugatti had a gear-grinding machine? Were the gear shafts are grinded? Are the shafts hardened ?


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 Post subject: Re: Bugatti gears ?
PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2012 10:14 pm 
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Joined: Sun Aug 16, 2009 3:17 am
Posts: 1041
Location: Baden-Baden Germany
to bad , there is no chssis number for my gear question :wink:
But today I had a possibility to have T40 garbox parts in my hands .For sure Bugatti had no gear grinding machine . The gears are made very coarse .


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 Post subject: Re: Bugatti gears ?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2012 7:50 am 
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Joined: Sat Dec 05, 2009 3:10 pm
Posts: 143
I remember reading in the GP book that after machining the gears were hardened but nothing else before assembly,may account for the roughness ?


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 Post subject: Re: Bugatti gears ?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2012 1:39 pm 
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Joined: Sun Aug 16, 2009 3:17 am
Posts: 1041
Location: Baden-Baden Germany
if you look at the tool marks , this gears are almost made from a blacksmith .After hardening this gears went straight into the gearbox . I think Bugatti had no grinding possibilities .Or does anyone have a photo of a grinding machine on which Bugatti was able to grind gears ?
So much for the myth about Bugatti quality .


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 Post subject: Re: Bugatti gears ?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2012 2:45 pm 
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Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2008 5:47 pm
Posts: 131
Teeth in gear wheels are grinding only for their quiet operation, usually in cooperation of the wheels is included high tolerance, I do not know if bugatti had a grinder, did it himself, I know you can not compare the technology of the 20's with the modern one. And you should know it Udo. It is not enough to want to do the gears, you have to have the experience and then you can talk about it. Your constant talk about the quality of Bugatti is boring, you dont have anything interesting to say, put cat among the pigeons, waiting for the result, you have nothing better to do. Are you bored?

Marek


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 Post subject: Re: Bugatti gears ?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2012 6:41 pm 
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Joined: Sun Aug 16, 2009 3:17 am
Posts: 1041
Location: Baden-Baden Germany
Bingo - Bored ! I think I have a 14 hours day . I am calculating and building gears for 20 years ! I have 4 gear cutting machines and can make all kind of gears from Modul 1 to 5 except spiral bevel gears . But normal bevel gears are no problem .
If you like to talk about the technology of the 20's , first you must know it .But not only Bugatti , minimum 10 various car builders bevore you can talk about it . How many various gear boxes from his time did you repair ?
The foto shows the first gears for the Type 5 . Made from 20MnCr5 , case hardening .And my gears are grinded inside to have a perfect fit . The bevel gears come back from hardening next week .
And I am not only building aType 5 gear box , also all parts for Brescia and T37 and all the others . We sell this gears about 25% cheaper compare to the others .


Attachments:
Type 5 gears y.jpg
Type 5 gears y.jpg [ 27.16 KiB | Viewed 3493 times ]


Last edited by Udolahr on Sun Oct 21, 2012 3:10 am, edited 2 times in total.
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 Post subject: Re: Bugatti gears ?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2012 8:26 pm 
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Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2008 5:47 pm
Posts: 131
So sorry all forum members that I exposed you by mistake for the Udo's advertisment .
Herman, couldn't you charge a fee?
Udo, you asked about grinding tooth. I do not see that the teeth in yours gears were grinded. I think that all informations about gears and rollers you can find on Molsheim drawings or from BOC. I mean the T40's gear box. Not so big expirience is needed to see that you are trying to make an advertisment for you here. I think that not very high quality of Bugatti's parts should help you to earn. Now I understand why your repeat it so often. My comment at the end is: if you do not want to be honest for others be honest although for you. Your work doesn't delights me at all. It's a pity we can not see those bevel gears. There will not be no more my posts about it.
Marek


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 Post subject: Re: Bugatti gears ?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2012 10:39 pm 
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Joined: Sun Aug 16, 2009 3:17 am
Posts: 1041
Location: Baden-Baden Germany
recollection, that was the question - can anyone say anything about the Bugatti gears. For example ,Bugatti had a gear-grinding machine? Were the gear shafts are grinded? Are the shafts hardened ? :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Bugatti gears ?
PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 7:20 am 
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Joined: Wed May 12, 2004 4:26 pm
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Location: Reeuwijk, The Netherlands
I guess 5% seems reasonable...

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Vive la Marque !!


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 Post subject: Re: Bugatti gears ?
PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 1:08 pm 
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Joined: Sun Aug 16, 2009 3:17 am
Posts: 1041
Location: Baden-Baden Germany
what do you mean by 5% ?


some time ago I got this mail ,

I am sick of guys that have never lifted a grinder calling themselves car guys or daring to criticize the work of others. This group is for sharing fabrication experience, ideas and techniques. Don't let anyone in this group that isn't a builder, has nothing to share, or is a prick.

and some days ago this one ,

I no longer bother putting anything on the Bugatti Builder site - I think it is all a bit embarrassing and of no benefit.


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 Post subject: Re: Bugatti gears ?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 11:08 am 
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Joined: Mon Oct 19, 2009 6:28 pm
Posts: 180
Udo play nicely if you don’t like peoples comments you have a choice, its called a forum for a reason. You are not the sole arbiter of who is worthy or qualified to comment on questions posted.

A lot of people on the forum have a great deal of experience but it is hard earned over many years of working on and restoring these cars. I totally understand why some of them may be disinclined to share that information with someone who is effectively a commercial competitor with a penchant for criticising anyone else’s work/ability.

Forgive my bluntness Udo but quite often you come across as rude and arrogant, haven spoken to you on the phone unlike many on the forum I know your heart is in the right place but others may not get this impression!


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 Post subject: Re: Bugatti gears ?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 12:50 pm 
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Joined: Sun Aug 16, 2009 3:17 am
Posts: 1041
Location: Baden-Baden Germany
Type 5 bevel gear just after hardening .


Attachments:
T5 c.jpg
T5 c.jpg [ 39.59 KiB | Viewed 3412 times ]
T5 a.jpg
T5 a.jpg [ 39.12 KiB | Viewed 3412 times ]
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 Post subject: Re: Bugatti gears ?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 8:11 pm 
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Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2008 5:47 pm
Posts: 131
I feel induced to respond:
1. I hoped to see bevel gears cleaned to see the difference in wor between frezer and blacksmith. On your pictures I can not see it. Some time ago I had got oryginal bevel gears. They were looked quite ordinary. I didn't see blacksmith's work at all.
2. Drawings that I saw on the picture are in English. Oryginaly they would be in French. Does't matter in what language they should have informations how to grind and harden them. So your question is rather strange.
3. Two month ago you had a problem with with setting machine for bevel gears. That machine you have got recently so were from is your long-term experiense. May be it is time to dispel the myth about Udo?
4. Face to face you are nice man, for sure a good expert but on forum you play unfair and you discourage other people to take part in disscussion.
5. I think that if find good proportion between your professionalism and difficult personality disscussion on forum would be more interesting. I think that 5% Herman could give up. I also like to dispel myth, Udo.
Marek


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 Post subject: Re: Bugatti gears ?
PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 1:04 am 
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Joined: Sun Aug 16, 2009 3:17 am
Posts: 1041
Location: Baden-Baden Germany
I got my bevel gear machine 3 month ago and it takes a week to runn this machine the first time . I have 2 Pfauter and one Lorenz for 20 years . So lots of gear experience .All the drawings we make are in english . We are an aircraft engine company and most customers are in the USA and England .And my Engineer responsible for drawings is used to make them in english .There are no original Type 5 drawings for the gears . So the gears are made from Type 4 drawings and 1 original De Dietrich 1903 gearbox in the Shutleworth collection in England . Original Type 4 and 5 drawings are in German and France. The original Molsheim drawings are not so magical . There is not so much info for hardening and grinding . And you have a problem to anderstand them anyway . You sell in the internet stearing gears for T35 with a pressure angel 20° . So much about honest . I hope your customers have strong arms . And maybe you look in the drawing how the presure angel must be .


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 Post subject: Re: Bugatti gears ?
PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 1:10 pm 
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Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2008 5:47 pm
Posts: 131
Dear Udo!
1. Please tell your mechanic responsible for the drawings that small squares or triangles means grinded surfaces.
2. If the picture does not have information about the grinding and hardening it needs to be to refer to the experience - if you have got them
3. Angle of pressure - I do not know where from did you got this 20 degrees?
In my home you said many bad opinions about EB and members of this forum. Is it fair? What can you make more to create your image?
Marek


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