It is currently Wed Jun 18, 2025 7:26 pm

All times are UTC + 1 hour




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 113 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 8  Next
Author Message
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2009 10:10 am 
Offline

Joined: Fri Nov 28, 2008 11:58 am
Posts: 40
Johan Buchner wrote:
<a href="http://www.bugattibuilder.com/photo/albums/userpics/10236/35_10_07_Paris_1_copier.jpg"><img src="http://www.bugattibuilder.com/photo/albums/userpics/10236/normal_35_10_07_Paris_1_copier.jpg" alt="No Title"></a>

Interesting. I am not convinced. The two photos does not seemed to be taken from the exact same angle. But interesting all the same.

Thanks
Johan

I make it with all the Aerolithe/Atlantic (without 57473, no old pic from side) in the same pic. Never the bonnet is highter on the aerolithe... Yes here is deformation but that's giving an good idea... So 57374 and 57453 are exactly superposable... Same doors, same bonnet, same wings... The roof of 57591 appear highter than others ?
57453 and Aerolithe have same doors exactly, only bonnet lenght and highter of front wings appear differents....
For me, the Aerolithe is on a 57S.... Only the highter front wings on the Atlantic give the impression that the bonnet is highter on the aero...


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2009 11:31 am 
Offline
Valued contributor

Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2007 10:39 am
Posts: 1029
Location: Port Elizabeth; South Africa
<a href="http://www.bugattibuilder.com/photo/albums/userpics/10003/sideByside.jpg"><img src="http://www.bugattibuilder.com/photo/albums/userpics/10003/normal_sideByside.jpg" alt="Bugatti Aerolithe and replica"></a>
<a href="http://www.bugattibuilder.com/photo/albums/userpics/10003/57331-1.jpg"><img src="http://www.bugattibuilder.com/photo/albums/userpics/10003/normal_57331-1.jpg" alt="Aeroilithe"></a>
<a href="http://www.bugattibuilder.com/photo/albums/userpics/10003/bugatti_type_57_Atlantic_%2357374_049.jpg"><img src="http://www.bugattibuilder.com/photo/albums/userpics/10003/normal_bugatti_type_57_Atlantic_%2357374_049.jpg" alt="bugatti type 57 Atlantic #57374 049"></a>
You are as sadly mistaken as Bernard Simon. Compare all the curves and proportions of the two passenger cabins, especially the roof-line, the height of the scuttle, the rear door-line and the shape, height and curvature of the rear wing. It is clear to see that the Simon theory that two Aerolithes became the first two Aero coupes is ridiculous. Compared to Pierre-Yves Laugier's work that of Simon is exposed as the sad hypotheses of a well-intentioned fool.

You are of course free to believe what you like. Like Simon, all it requires is to dismiss the overwhelming amount of documentation that proves that the Aerolithe (singular) made use of Electron and not aluminium. As for the German joke, do you see now what happens if you try and build an Aerolithe on a T57S chassis?

I am right, you are wrong. But thanks for having the courage to be proven wrong in public, and besides, there is no shame in losing an argument to me. I am, after all, highly underrated.

I am also
Johan Buchner


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2009 12:18 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Nov 28, 2008 11:58 am
Posts: 40
Johan Buchner wrote :
Compare all the curves and proportions of the two passenger cabins, especially the roof-line, the height of the scuttle, the rear door-line and the shape, height and curvature of the rear wing. It is clear to see that the Simon theory that two Aerolithes became the first two Aero coupes is ridiculous. Compared to Pierre-Yves Laugier's work that of Simon is exposed as the sad hypotheses of a well-intentioned fool.
......
I am right, you are wrong. But thanks for having the courage to be proven wrong in public, and besides, there is no shame in losing an argument to me. I am, after all, highly underrated.
I am also
Johan Buchner[/quote]
Sorry, but I compare... I post in my user galery a new pic with aerolithe and 57453... It exactly the same door.... But I never say that aerolithe became Atlantic, only same model are used to make... And it's evident, why EB with no money make entierly a new car with new mould...
You are yourself very courageous to denied obvious proof (pics)... I never underrated you....


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2009 12:31 pm 
Offline
Valued contributor

Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2007 10:39 am
Posts: 1029
Location: Port Elizabeth; South Africa
<a href="http://www.bugattibuilder.com/photo/albums/userpics/10236/aerolithe_57453_milieu.jpg"><img src="http://www.bugattibuilder.com/photo/albums/userpics/10236/normal_aerolithe_57453_milieu.jpg" alt="No Title"></a>
Thank God you have a sense of humour! Bottom hinge, not the same.

Johan


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2009 12:54 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Nov 28, 2008 11:58 am
Posts: 40
Johan Buchner wrote:
<a
Thank God you have a sense of humour! Bottom hinge, not the same.
Johan

If it's the only thing you have seen, I WIN !!!!!! :D It's an very identical car, I not wrote the same....
To be honest the door handle is not at the same place... Lower on the aerolithe.


Last edited by Gap05 on Sun Feb 01, 2009 6:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2009 1:13 pm 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Wed May 12, 2004 4:26 pm
Posts: 2620
Location: Reeuwijk, The Netherlands
In Johans post, the 2nd and 3rd picture. Are these the same car? I see differences. However, the setting is the same.

Differences: bonnet height, door handle, lowest stripe on side of bonnet, wheels/tyres, rear fender.

_________________
Vive la Marque !!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2009 5:48 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2006 9:18 am
Posts: 1008
Location: Netherlands, Nieuwegein
Am I retarded or what? There have been more chassis designs before the final T57S with the rear axle going through holes in the chassis. One of those was the T57TT chassis, with already a lower set seat, more rearward. It has a steering column that is more horizontal than in the standard T57.

The chassis for the Aerolithe was not the standard T57, or a shortened standard T57. It was a prototype T57 chassis, called "S" at the time, but NOT having the rear axle through holes in the chassis...

Hopefully David Grainger of the Guild will write a definitive report on this, so that both Simon as well as Buchner will calm down.

_________________
www.BugattiPage.com
www.BugattiRevue.com
www.BugattiAircraft.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2009 6:14 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2007 1:12 pm
Posts: 2285
-


Last edited by Uwe on Sun Jun 30, 2019 11:35 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2009 6:27 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2006 9:18 am
Posts: 1008
Location: Netherlands, Nieuwegein
Info from different sources, private communications from Bernhard Simon (before the T57S book) and, If I recall well, from one of the Trust Newsletters, where some info is given on the chassis (which is bend inward at the rear, as stated by Lazarus) and the first "T57S" radiator which is lower, but still the classic design (not the V of the later "s").

Simon gives insight in the T57T and GR chassis. Apparently some version was called S.

I don't have the time at the moment to search for (and show) these infos.

_________________
www.BugattiPage.com
www.BugattiRevue.com
www.BugattiAircraft.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Feb 02, 2009 1:14 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2007 1:12 pm
Posts: 2285
-


Last edited by Uwe on Sun Jun 30, 2019 11:36 am, edited 2 times in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Feb 02, 2009 1:40 pm 
Offline
Valued contributor

Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2007 10:39 am
Posts: 1029
Location: Port Elizabeth; South Africa
Suddenly I am a little less sure about, well, everything to do with the Aerolithe. Make that a lot less sure. Thanks Uwe.

Johan


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Feb 02, 2009 4:33 pm 
Offline
Valued contributor

Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2007 10:39 am
Posts: 1029
Location: Port Elizabeth; South Africa
Enough! Herewith the entire chapters on the Torpedo Competition 57222 & Aerolithe 57331 by Pierre-Yves Laugier.

57222/235S TORPEDO COMPETITION


It was under the name of “Torpedo Competition on a 57S chassis” that the factory draftsman, Joseph Walter, designed the plan at a scale of 1/10th. It represented the new Bugatti sports car that would take the place of the TT model. Two cars were built in August 1935.

The factory design was number 1075. The Bugatti workshop notes indicated that this Torpedo was completed on October 5, 1935 and marked as a “Torpedo 226S-57335.” The following day it was named a “Coupe 235 S-57331.”

The Torpedo was to be shown at the Grand Palais Show in October 1935 as a demonstration car outside the exhibition hall. There is mention of the car in the factory records, dated October 31, 1935, concerning the delivery of the Type 57 chassis for the month.

The list indicates that “on October 4, 1935: Torpedo 57222 engine 235 S
Salon demonstration,
on October 4, 1935: Coupe 57331 engine 226 S –
Salon stand.”

These two sources of information from the factory are contradictory. In fact the
body shop notes indicate that engine 226 S was for the Torpedo and engine 235 S was for the Aérolithe, whereas the sales registry indicates just the opposite.

It seems that the engine 235 S was definitely the Torpedo’s because a note on the factory list states that the “Engine 235 S became 1S.”

The Torpedo might have used more than one engine before being taken apart or becoming a “Racing Mule” for the 1936 A.C.F. It would then have been equipped with a wind deflecting radiator grill and Type 59 wire wheels. This second version of the Torpedo was perhaps the car mentioned in a factory note dated May 30, 1936, as a “Torpedo engine 1 S, Mr. Veyron 57335.” If that is the case, the 57S with the 1S engine, actually Atalante 57384S, was originally equipped with a Torpedo Competition body.

This Atalante kept its original narrower and rounded firewall, which matched the form of the sports body such as the Torpedo’s. It was then modified by the addition of two triangular corner pieces at each upper angle to give it the standard shape of the squarer 57S firewall.

This was not the only Atalante with this special firewall. The same modification was done on Atalante 57373S, Atlantic 57374S and Atalante 57383S.

Nevertheless, the arguments are not in favor of the first 57S Torpedo Competition, which evolved with the features of the actual Coupe 57384-1S because the Torpedo should have been on the first model 57S chassis.

In other words it should have the side frames cambered at the rear. This Atalante was delivered with engine 1S, gearbox 1S and rear axle 1S. The original Torpedo, which had engine 235S, should have had the gearbox and the axle with the same number.

If Torpedo 1S is, indeed, the ex-235S, all its mechanical parts and chassis must have been changed because the side frames of the 1935 model differ from those of the 1936 model.
It is time to make a quick review of the manufacture and the production of the 57S chassis:
The design of the condola chassis by Pichetto is dated August 7, 1935.
Design 1075 of the Torpedo 57 Competition four-seater is dated September 7, 1935.
Design no.1076 corresponding to the Coupe special 57S (Aérolithe) is dated September 16, 1935.
The 57S chassis, as we know it on all the cars delivered to clientele, equipped with two parallel side frames, is dated November 29, 1935. It includes a modification of the two side 57S frames CH 66/67 compared to the original August drawing. The cross bars don’t seem to have been redesigned.

We were able to find the factory that manufactured the 57S chassis for Bugatti. It was the Brunon and Valette Company in Rive de Gier in the Loire region, which explains the BV initials seen on the rear cross bars on a number of Bugatti touring cars after the 1930s.

In a letter dated December 5, 1935, addressed to Brunon and Valette, Bugatti ordered 20 pairs of 57S side frames, 20 left and 20 right ones in 3.5 millimeter steel sheet metal according to the 57S chassis 66/67 plans. Four chassis a month were produced after January 1, 1936.

Brunon and Valette answered Bugatti by letter on December 13 and proposed the price of FRF 230 per frame and FRF 9,000 for the tools necessary for the manufacture of the parts. It is possible that the company didn’t produce the two gondola prototype chassis because it didn’t want to invest in making the tools for just four frames. Thus the Aérolithe and the Torpedo S were manufactured at the factory as prototypes with the Molsheim workshop before launching into the production of the chassis 57S, according to the modified design of November 29, 1935.

Nevertheless on December 13 the factory directed Brunon and Valette to fabricate three pairs of Type 59 side frames in steel sheet metal with a resistance between 55 and 65 kilograms. The Rive de Gier factory asked for FRF 790 for the pair, FRF 360 for the tooling, and three to four weeks for delivery.

Between the design made on August 7, 1935 for the gondola chassis and the exhibition of the two finished cars respectively on the 5th and 6th of October, the Loire factory had time to make the tooling and parts for two pairs of chassis of the new model… and maybe for three Type 59s by December 1935.

We don’t have all of the correspondence between Brunon and Valette and the factory, but none of the documents we consulted made any reference to these two chassis.

The Torpedo Competition 57S was a four-seater and resembled the Torpedo “Tourist Trophy,” which was also a four-seater. It was on show in front of the Grand Palais at the October 1935 Show and had license plate 57222: 9219NV2. The corresponding license plate was issued the day the car left for the Show.

In the January 1936 issue of the “Bugantics” magazine there appeared an article about the new Type 57 models.

The author divided the 57 production into three categories:
The touring version of the 57 classic
The TT model (which was in existence since August 1935)
The Competition model.
The TT model was identical to the touring version except for the axle ratio (14 X 54 instead of 12 X 50), a higher compression engine and a more angled steering column (like the Grand Raid).

The Competition model came out with an entirely redesigned chassis, much lower and much shorter, with a length of 2.98 meters instead of 3.3 meters. It had a more powerful engine with multiple carburetors and a double disk clutch plus four de Ram shock absorbers. Information concerning the multiple carburetors for the 1936 model was found in “Motor Sport,” but we never found photographs to verify this information.

The approximate speeds of the three models described are 160 km/h for the 57 Tourism, at a price of £875; 177 km/h for the model TT, at a price of £930; and 192 km/h for the Competition model, at a price of £1300.

The article was accompanied by the only known photo at the time of the Type 57 Torpedo Competition. This same photo appeared later in the December issue of “Motor Sport.” One can see the dashboard with two large speedometers at each side hiding four small gauges – for water temperature, oil pressure and the ammeter.

This gauge arrangement was the opposite of that on the Aérolithe. It had a dashboard with two large central speedometers separated by a thin vertical metallic band and two small gauges on each side.

The speedometer was on the left and the revolution counter was on the right. The arrangement of the Torpedo’s dashboard was repeated on the Atlantic and the factory 57S Roadster, whereas that of the Torpedo would be repeated on the Atalante 57S and the 57C chassis, which were delivered to clients after January 1937.

The factory price list of October 1935 presented the Torpedo Competition as a Chassis sport Type 57S with a Torpedo body conforming to the international sports code, priced at FRF 112,000.

The 57 chassis was sold for the price of FRF 89,000, and the additional FRF 23,000 corresponds to the bodywork. This bodywork could have been made in electron as was the Aérolithe for the same auto show.

The original gondola chassis of the 57 Torpedo Competition was not used for the Atalante 57384 engine 1S. Had the chassis been changed to the 1S mechanics before its sale? Or was the Torpedo 1S used by Veyron at Montlhéry the future Atalante 57384S actually a second Torpedo 57S, this time on a straight chassis? (The one for which we have a photo with Jean Bugatti at the wheel on the Montlhéry circuit during the ACF trials in May 1936).

The question is raised, but in any case the first of the Tanks built: “The Aerodynamic Mule” (as opposed to the “Mule without wings” from the tests of the A.C.F., which was the Torpedo 57S with Type 59 wheels) wasn’t on the gondola chassis for the Torpedo Competition.

That Tank still exists and it has been easy to verify that its chassis is the straight 57S model. We believe that the two other 57G Tanks built after it didn’t use an old 57S chassis either, but these last cars have disappeared.

The Torpedo Competition had, in its original form, a flat Type 57 radiator with chromed wire wheels and the gondola chassis, a short existence, if one considers that the Torpedo 57S driven by Veyron and Benoist on the Montlhéry circuit was on a straight 57S chassis and the first ones were only delivered to the factory after January 1936.




57331/226S Aérolithe


Veritable star of the October 1935 Paris Automobile Show, the extraordinary two-seater Coupe seemed to have fallen from the sky and still remains a mystery.

The name Aérolithe, from the Greek aeros (air) and lithos (stone), is described in the French Larousse dictionary as “mineral masses coming from the depths of space onto the earth whose fall is ordinarily accompanied by light phenomena and explosions. They are burning while falling and giving off an odor of sulphur and gun powder.” One can easily imagine the Aérolithe white hot, shooting at full speed through the country roads in 1935, provoking fear and wonder in those who saw it.

The name Aérolithe doesn’t appear on the factory plan no.1076 dated September 16, 1935, nor is it mentioned in the workshops registries where, on October 6, 1935, one can read: “Coupe engine 235S chassis 57331.” The summary of the cars sold up to October 31, 1935 notes for October 4, “Coupe engine 226S chassis 57331 shown at the Bugatti stand at the Paris “Salon de l’Auto”.” There is no confusion possible: it is indeed the Aérolithe and not the cream and chestnut colored long chassis Type 57 Atalante No. 57330 next to her on the stand. Nor is it Jean Bugatti’s personal black and red convertible Atalante chassis No. 57333, engine 234, which Jean was demonstrating outside the Grand Palais.

The first mention of the name Aérolythe (with that spelling) was found undated on a typewritten page in the factory archives and relates the 57S Coupe testing in Montlhéry by Robert Benoist. It states in the margin: “Tests with the 57S Aérolythe, bodywork from the 1935 Motor Show (sheet metal, vertical Stromberg carburetor).” The starting time for the trials was 5:10 p.m. One can assume that it was spring as it would have already been dark in winter at that time. Benoist made an average of 190.324 km/h on his third lap. The best time was on the fifteenth lap completed in 47.4 seconds at a speed of 191.217 km/h. On the thirty-second lap, the front right tire lost its tread and the car continued through the thirty-third lap. The car ran for nearly thirty minutes loaded with seventy-two liters of gas, of which 17 were consumed during the trial. It was equipped with 29 X 5.35 front tires with 2.5 kilograms of pressure. The rear tires were 19 X 6 with a pressure of 3 kgs. The spark plugs were Type R.11.A.

A speed test was then made with B.T.S. tires and the car reached a speed of 193.537 km/h, but the front tire once more lost its tread.

The track test was probably made in April or May 1936, and its performance was related in the “Illustration” magazine on May 23, 1936. The author states that this was the fastest speed ever obtained by a touring car without a supercharger. He credited it as going 192 km/h.

After its success at the Paris Motor Show, the new 57S Coupe inspired all of the Automobile magazine illustrators. We can see it drawn up in 1935 in the October 25 issue of “La Vie Autombile” with the caption: “Rational Bugatti interior insuring very good visibility.” In the “Actualité Automobile” December 1935 issue, there was another drawing which shows the car from above.

After its presentation to the French press, the car was shown at the Olympia Show in London. It was pictured again in the November-December 1935 magazine “Speed,” and in the November 1935 “Bugantics,” Volume 4, No. 6. In the “Bugantics” magazine, Elgy (pseudonym of Eric Giles) wrote about his visit to the Olympia Motor Show with his brother Geoffrey, when he stopped in front of the Bugatti stand where the new model sat enthroned. He described the car as “the new competition 57S sport model Aérodynamic, bodied in electron.” (“Electron” being the term given for the mixture of aluminum and magnesium). The shock of seeing this new model was such that the Bertelli-bodied Roadster on a Grand Raid chassis 57316, which he had so recently bought, now seemed obsolete. Nevertheless, he waited until 1938 to order a 57S: the 57593S Corsica Roadster.

The Aérolithe shared the Bugatti stand at the London Show with a 57 Tourer four-seater and a black aérodynamic Berline. The 57S Coupe returned to England in the spring of 1936, driven by Williams who, with Robert Benoist, was the driver responsible for the Paris showroom.

In the May 1936 issue of “Bugantics,” Colonel Giles described the eagerly awaited test drive where he was a passenger beside William Grover in the Aérolithe:
“It was with considerable excitement that I learned from Colonel Sorel (the manager for the Bugatti agency in London) that the new 57S Electron Coupe, which was shown at the London Motor Show, had just returned to England for several days. Mr. Williams, from the Bugatti stables, had driven it and I was going to have the great honor of accompanying him for a road test. Then came the day when I was standing in the presence of that very beautiful small car. It is interesting to note that when one sees a car on a stand, the impression is not the same as on the road. One could be deceived but the 57 Electron Coupe appeared even more beautiful on the road. The height of the car and its beautiful lines are even more fascinating. Standing beside the car, the roof arrives just at shoulder height, and there is still plenty of room inside. One can even be seated wearing a hat without its touching the roof. The seats have a Bugatti tubular design without reinforcement, but are most comfortable.
The car is a real two-seater, but there is enough room in the back for some baggage and for a third person to be very comfortable. Concerning the road test I shared, it is difficult to describe it without superlatives. I was especially impressed by the silence of the car, its accelerations and breaking.
When the engine started, the only perceptible sound was from the rev counter. We slipped skilfully into London’s suburban traffic, starting off in second gear and passing straight into fourth. The car easily found its rhythm between 25 and 50 km/h without a sound.
We entered onto Finchly Road and could finally pass into third gear. During a powerful acceleration, I found myself pushed firmly back in my seat. It was possible to push the car to about 5,000 rpm, and that was fantastic. Very little noise came from the engine and absolutely no noise from the exhaust nor from the gears, which changed easily. In a very short time we went from 0 to 185 km/h. When a car some distance away cut into the road, the brakes demonstrated their remarkable efficiency and we braked without any impression of insecurity and putting no effort on the ability to hold the car steady. We moved through the urban traffic going from second to third gear and speeds from 30 to 160 km/h where most of the cars were going under 70 km/h. It was very impressive. Unfortunately, we didn’t have the time to take the highway to the north where the car could have easily reached 192 km/h because there seemed to still be a large reserve of power going 185 km/h.
Resigned, we turned around and returned to Finchley, once more in traffic but the car going slowly in fourth gear made no noise. It is truly an extraordinary car with a very strong personality and driven that day by a very skilled driver.”

On the photograph of the Aérolithe taken in London during this short trip in England, the license plate number 5265NV2 is perfectly visible. That corresponded to the registration no. 57103 delivered by the Strasbourg police headquarters to the factory on November 16, 1933. We know of no other license plate for this Aérolithe, which certainly received the 57331 identity at the October 1935 Motor Show. It couldn’t have kept it for long because chassis 57331 was definitely attributed to Jean Bugatti’s personal Atalante. This car, a black and red convertible with engine 234, born with the chassis license plate 57333, was later sold to Mme Travers with number 57331, engine 234, on May 14, 1936.

The Aérolithe did not survive, and even if it resembled the 57374S Aéro Coupe sold to Lord Rothschild in August 1936, it cannot be the same car.

This first Atlantic 57374S, still called “Aéro” by the factory (as was the second Atlantic 57453S), was based on the 2S mechanics; the engine, gearbox and back axle all originally carried these numbers. The two engine crankcases, both upper and lower, are engraved with the number S2.

Even more significant, a number of the panels in steel and in wood of this Aéro Atlantic 57374S are also engraved “2.” Even if the numbers found on a Bugatti body from the factory bear no relation, with exceptions, to the engine numbers on the 57S factory body, the number “X” engraved on the sheet metal corresponds to the X number car of that model.

Thus the seventeen 57S Bugatti Atalantes carry body and wood numbers going from 1 to 17. Thus the number 2 on the wood and the sheet metal of Atlantic 57374S certainly indicates that it was the second car of that model (of the model with a modified design because the Aérolithe corresponds to drawing 1076 and the Atlantic to drawing 1076A) and doesn’t signify a second engine. If the spare wheel cover of 57374S is marked “Aéro,” that is not surprising, because the car met the standards of that designation.

In any case if the bodywork of Atlantic 57374S was that of the Aérolithe there wouldn’t be a reason to find no. 2 because it would be the prototype of no. 1. The design of the front fenders from the windshield to the lower windows and the hood are all different elements in the Aérolithe design from those of the Atlantic.

57374S was built on a 57S chassis and stamped no. 7, which means that six other chassis were manufactured before it. The number 7 is logical if one remembers that the 57S chassis came out before it, namely the Aéroltihe and the Torpedo Competition (possibly an unnumbered pre series on a gondola chassis), but also the three 57Gs, which are on 57S chassis, and Atalante 57384S, which came out four days before that Atlantic.

Jim Stranberg, owner of High Mountain Classics, supervised the restoration of Atlantic 57374S. He stripped the car down to the chassis and found no trace of the parts that would indicate that it was the Aérolithe – notably the small wing tips attached to each side of the rear windows of the Aérolithe, which can be seen on the photographs taken at the London Show. There was no trace of the eventual modification in the woodwork or the sheet metal. Therefore the Atlantic body is not a modification of the Aérolithe. One must also reaffirm that the 57374S body and 57591S both still exist and are made of aluminum. They are not made with an electron alloy (aluminum and magnesium), which was certainly the case of the 1935 Aérolithe prototype and, maybe, the Torpedo Competition.

What became of the Aérolithe? Like the Torpedo Competition, it seems to have vanished into air. Robert Aumaître, the chief mechanic of the Bugatti racing stable after 1935, assured the historian, Robert Jarraud, that the car had been broken up.

A number of the factory prototypes have disappeared, namely the two 1932 T57 Berlines with independent front wheels, the two 1936 57G Tanks, and the two 57S 45s on the Type 59 chassis.

Best I read these two chapters myself, again.

Johan


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Feb 02, 2009 4:56 pm 
Offline
Valued contributor

Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2007 10:39 am
Posts: 1029
Location: Port Elizabeth; South Africa
I've just suddenly thought of something ; by posting two chapters of Laugier on this Forum I may be in violation of copyright law. So if you find my previous post deleted, know that I did so under threat of legal action. I am not messing with Pierre-Yves Laugier or Lionel Decrey - they might refuse to sell me the T51 work!

Actually, the more I think about it, the more I'm getting worried. Herman, advise please. To delete or not to delete, that is the question.

Johan


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Feb 02, 2009 5:04 pm 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Wed May 12, 2004 4:26 pm
Posts: 2620
Location: Reeuwijk, The Netherlands
Let's see what happens. Contextual it is defendable. If the need arises, it can be removed. Laugier should feel honoured, not threatened, I guess.

_________________
Vive la Marque !!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Feb 02, 2009 5:12 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 9:36 pm
Posts: 367
Location: The Netherlands
J.J.Horst wrote:
If I recall well, from one of the Trust Newsletters, where some info is given on the chassis (which is bend inward at the rear, as stated by Lazarus) and the first "T57S" radiator which is lower, but still the classic design (not the V of the later "s").



The Mystery of the Silver-Grey Aerolithe
Yves Kaltenbach

In recent times, three reputable authors have written about one of the most mysterious Bugattis, the Aerolithe. Paul Badré published a 6-page article in a low-circulation French historic car magazine, while Bernhard Simon and Pier Yves Laugier devoted a chapter in their respective 57S Bugatti tomes. All three pose more intriguing questions than they provide convincing answers.

The Aerolithe was unveiled at the Paris Motor Show held in October 1935 under the iron and glass structure of the Grand Palais. The car was known as the ‘Coupé Special’ and it seems that the ‘Aerolithe’ tag was invented by the French press and hardly used by Bugatti. The car stunned by its appearance, and though it may have been inspired by the ‘Autobahnkurier’ that Mercedes unveiled in Berlin earlier that year, its shape was unique. It used a styling cue that had first appeared in October 1933 on the tail of the Type 59s, i.e. an external riveted
spine as a way to join two separate half-shells. Bugatti stated that the bodywork was made from ‘Elektron’, a German-sourced alloy made of magnesium, tin and aluminium and already in regular use in the aviation industry. The ‘Coupé Special’ was later exhibited at Olympia for the London Motor Show, and came back to Britain in March 1936, driven by William Grover-Williams, the famed 1929 Monaco GP winner. G M Giles was one of the lucky passengers and recounted his experience in the next issue of Bugantics. Afterwards, nothing was heard of the car. Its styling was re-used on the 57S Atlantic, the first of which, built in September 1936, was sold to Lord Rothschild.

How many Aerolithes were made?
Probably, only one. Although one may spot minor differences (windscreen wipers and front wing sidelights) on pictures taken at Paris and London, this was probably the same car and both Badré and Laugier agree on that. However, Simon notes that an engine list, sourced from the few surviving factory documents, shows that the engine number was changed between Paris 57331 – engine 226S, and London, 57103 – engine 2S. From that indication, Simon deduces that there was a second Aerolithe, stating that ‘there can be no doubt about its existence, as it can be distinguished in documentary photos by the description of different details and by the former licence no 57103, 5265NV2’. According to Laugier, 57331 was transferred to Jean Bugatti’s Atalante Company car soon after the closure of the Paris Motor Show. On the other hand, the latter chassis number and relevant registration documents were probably transferred to the Aerolithe to enable it to cross the Channel on its own wheels, which was common practice with car manufacturers. However, there is no definitive evidence to prove that more than one Aerolithe was ever made.

What was the exact specification of the Aerolithe?
Although the Aerolithe was equipped with the then-current tall 57
radiator and bonnet*, there is no doubt it was built on a short wheelbase 57S chassis, as the excellent side view from the Paris Show clearly shows. However, Simon states that it used a first version of the new chassis, with waisted rear ends ‘à la Type 35’ and a narrower firewall than was later fitted to the 57S. Unfortunately, nothing survives except for a couple of ‘narrow’ firewalls and a few drawings, not enough to prove that this version of the 57S chassis was ever made. As far as we know, there is no picture of the bare chassis of the Aerolithe prior to the installation of the body, so we are left with pure speculation. Regarding the engine, although G M Giles was impressed as a passenger, he gave no precise indication about what powered the car he rode in. It may have been an improved version of the 3.3 litre T57 unit, a prototype for the forthcoming S version. Whether it was in its definitive form is also not clear. The bodywork excited the imagination as Bugatti insisted that it was made of a rare material named ‘Elektron’. Bugatti was so convincing that Badré writes ‘it seems established that the bodywork of the Aerolithe was shaped by trained German craftsmen who were specially invited to Molsheim. One must reckon that it is of a much better quality than regular Bugatti production and to a level equal to that prevailing in the aircraft industry’. To the opposite, Simon writes that Bugatti ‘seemed to be in a very tight financial situation …The use of materials such as electron metal and magnesium would have required completely new production units and a technology that was not available in those days, not to mention the question of expense’. At that time, Bugatti’s poor financial situation probably did not allow for the expense of bringing foreign specialists to replace their own workforce. Given Ettore
Bugatti’s inclination towards ‘flashy’ statements, one may accept that the Aerolithe was in fact built from simple aluminium.

What became of the Aerolithe?
As before, the authors disagree. Simon’s statement: ‘the second coupé Aerolithe 57103S that was later used to assemble 57374 …’ implies that the Rothschild Atlantic was nothing more than the rebuilt second Aerolithe. Once again there is no serious evidence of this consanguinity. For instance, the Aerolithe had two small ‘fins’ one each side of the rear window lights (which Badré confuses with fuel filters!), which can be seen on the picture taken in a London street. When restoring the Rothschild Atlantic, Jim Stranberg found no trace of this on the inside of the rear panels and also noted that all body panels were made of completely
normal aluminium sheet metal. And by comparing the side views of both the Aerolithe and the Rothschild Atlantic (as shown by Laugier p 126) one may note too many minor differences other than the scuttle height and bonnet line to make this feasible. Furthermore, Badré rightly points out that the rivets on the front wing spines of the two cars are set with a different spacing. Simon and Laugier note that metal panels and woodwork on the Rothschild Atlantic are stamped ‘2’. Some say that it was made at the same time as the Holzschuh Atlantic, and the latter could have been stamped ‘1’. Given its fate, i.e. completely written off by a train in the mid-fifties, we shall never know. Only Badré concludes that the Aerolithe, with its specific racing car features, ‘became the second 57G, driven by Veyron in the 1937 Le Mans 24 Hours’. While it is quite feasible that the three 57G tanks were built in the troubled spring of 1936 with ‘off-the-shelf’ parts, including perhaps, components from the disused Aerolithe, the two Tanks that ran at Le Mans in 1937 had already raced twice in 1936. Laugier concludes: ‘Robert Aumaitre, chief mechanic with Bugatti from 1935, confirmed to Robert Jarraud that the car was scrapped’. This is probably the most credible explanation.

To express my own feelings, I believe that there was only one Aerolithe built, with its bodywork made from aluminium, and incorporating either series or prototype parts. I also think that this car disappeared some time between April 1936 and the late forties in the turmoil that the Bugatti factory at Molsheim suffered. As there was a removal to Bordeaux under the pressure of the advancing enemy and the forced occupation of the site by the German Trippel Werke, that anything survived from that period was a miracle. There is not such word as “impossible” and we
may believe that number of prototype cars (e.g. the 57S45s …) disappeared without trace during those troubled times. The author wishes to thank the Bugatti Trust for their precious help.

A last detail note from the Trust:
Some of the writings about the Aerolithe have referred to it as having had a standard Type 57 (flat fronted) radiator. In fact it did not. The first two Type 57S cars had flat radiators but ones which had been re-designed to be 80mm lower relative to the crankshaft centreline than standard. They had a different mounting arangement and the starting handle hole was not in the base position. The Molsheim drawing number for this radiator is 57SCH.13 and the drawing is dated 13.8.35. The ‘V’ fronted later Type 57S radiator drawing is dated 18.12.35. The other 57S exhibited in Paris in October 1935 was the Torpédo Competition. Both the Aerolithe and the Torpédo Competition side views were drawn to a scale of 1:10. Scaling from the drawings also confirms that they were fitted with the special 57S lowered flat radiator.

The drawings of the Aerolithe and the Torpedo Competition can be scaled. The wheelbase is2.950m and the height to the top of the radiator, not including the filler, is 998mm compared to 1078mm for a normal Type 57.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 113 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 8  Next

All times are UTC + 1 hour


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  

Valid CSS :: Valid XHTML Copyright © 2007 by Bugattibuilder.com :: Disclaimer :: Contact :: Advertising possibilities

Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group