Car 4906

Legaleagle · **Joined:** Fri Feb 29, 2008 3:09 pm **Posts:** 109

“Bugantics” Vol. 46 no. 1 (Spring 1983) states “Non-original plates continue to be seen, unhappily, and are invariably transparently fake. A number of plates exist which are known not to belong to existing cars, including : 4906, 4930, 54212, 57163, 57638.”

Was the car at Retromobile the "real" 4906 or the one with the fake "chassis plate" ?

Herman · **Posted:** Tue Feb 10, 2009 10:28 am

No idea, the bonnet was not open. The registration number was taped, so it could not be seen...

Also the gearbox was covered with a black plate, which looked really awkward.

Of course does not have to mean anything... I am sure the experts can make comments on this.

<a href="http://www.bugattibuilder.com/photo/albums/userpics/10003/2166/P1000278.jpg"><img src="http://www.bugattibuilder.com/photo/albums/userpics/10003/2166/normal_P1000278.jpg" alt="Bugatti type 35A for sale"></a>

<a href="http://www.bugattibuilder.com/photo/albums/userpics/10003/2166/P1000279.jpg"><img src="http://www.bugattibuilder.com/photo/albums/userpics/10003/2166/normal_P1000279.jpg" alt="Bugatti type 35A for sale"></a>

<a href="http://www.bugattibuilder.com/photo/albums/userpics/10003/2166/P1000277.jpg"><img src="http://www.bugattibuilder.com/photo/albums/userpics/10003/2166/normal_P1000277.jpg" alt="Bugatti type 35A for sale"></a>

J.J.Horst · **Posted:** Tue Feb 10, 2009 10:56 am

"4906" was stamped on the engine bearer arm, alongside with 133 .A.

So, not just the chassis plate ( I did not see one either, the place were normally the chassis plate is, was now fitted with a horn.

Legaleagle · **Joined:** Fri Feb 29, 2008 3:09 pm **Posts:** 109

What evidence is there that the car at Retromobile is the real 4906.

Is it the same car pictured in Wiki which I'm told was the car which had a fake chassis plate on ? (Which does not of course mean the car itself was a fake).

Someone who saw the car at Wiki said he thought the covered-over registration numbers are the same as the car in the museum.

Also, is the car in "Memoirs of a Bugatti Hunter" the same car ? Does anyone know who was driving it ?

copperkettle · **Joined:** Wed Jul 09, 2008 6:23 pm **Posts:** 127

The car shown is the real 4906, a car with a very rich US history. Imported by Hunt Smith who bought it from Co. Sorel in London on his honeymoon, he sold it to George Rand upon his return to the States when his wife confessed to absolutely hating the car. Rand used the car for a short period of time, selling it to McClure Halley who had Zumbach's "pimp" it up for him. Most of these details were, sadly, removed in the early 1970's. From Halley it went to Richard Wharton, then Bob Fuller and then Paul Wilson...all three of which raced it in the prewar "ARCA" (Automobile Racing Club of America.) Later, it went through Russ Sceli to Bill Milliken who did lots of fantastic things with it. The chassis plate was separated from the car about 35 years ago and was sold by the automobilia dealer, Charlie Schalebaum at a Hershey meet. Nice to see it again after all these years. CK

superleggera · **Joined:** Sat Aug 09, 2008 4:13 am **Posts:** 97

For those who don't know, but McClure Halley was from New York and had some amazing automobiles that were modified when new by Zumbach's or specially adorned via the factory ala his 2.9 Alfa (now with Mozart and PB winner). Definitely a unique individual with great taste!

There are some great pictures of this Bugatti in the Joel Finn "American Road Racing - the 1930s" book. In particular the dash with all the additional gauges and as owned by the following owners and raced in the era before WWII in America.

thingfish · **Joined:** Mon Feb 09, 2009 8:08 pm **Posts:** 38

The car in "Memoirs of a Bugatti Hunter" is the same car as at the Retromobile.
The driver is Phillipe Vernholes, the event is Circuit des Remparts in Angouleme, probably in August 1981.

Lazarus · **Posted:** Mon Feb 16, 2009 10:30 am

see it again after all these years. CK[/quote] Indeed it is nice to see it after all these years ! And for the modest sum of 800,000 euros you can take it away.Not a joke ,that is the price i was given on the stand on saturday.Surely an unblown T35a cannot be worth that?and in need of work to make it presentable.

Legaleagle · **Joined:** Fri Feb 29, 2008 3:09 pm **Posts:** 109

Is this the car that Marc Nicolosi has owned for about twenty years ?

He was entered at Angouleme in, according to the programme, a 1924 (sic) type 35A with comp. no 31. Would this be the same car ?

Does anyone know anything more about the bogus 4609 chassis plate referred to in Bugantics ?

thingfish · **Joined:** Mon Feb 09, 2009 8:08 pm **Posts:** 38

After Bill Milliken, the car was sold to Ervin Fuller (nothing to do with Robert Fuller earlier on in 4906´s history). Fuller owned the car from 1950 and placed a sale ad in PurSang magazine of the American Bugatti Club. That was in 1970.
Although not an ABC member, professional dealer Kirk F. White of Pennsylvania somehow heard about it, purchased the car and offered it for sale soon after.

Bruno Weidenmüller (D) who was living in North America at that time bought # 4906 from White. He decided to have the dashboard rebuilt to Molsheim standard (little did he know about the historic value of that McClure Halley/Zumbach dash back then) in a New Jersey workshop of a guy called Gentry Smith.
While in the process of moving house back to Germany again, he hears that # 4906 was removed from the G. Smith workshop by Kirk F. White without notice or permission. Bruno Weidenmüller soon later finds out that the car was not only stolen but subsequently sold by Kirk F. White via an alleged auction to an "unknown buyer from abroad".

Up to this day, there is no evidence that this auction - organized by White himself - has ever taken place. Much later it was found out that 4906 was illegally sold to an Englishman by the name of Christopher Renwick. Renwick is said to have later (between late 1973 to early 1974) sold the car via known London Mews dealer Dan Margulies to Marc Nicolosi, who passed/sold it to Christian Baverey, a former president of the CBF (Club Bugatti France) living in Lyon.

4906 was apparently in Baverey´s ownership for quite some time, as he has obviously participated with it in the Bugatti Meeting in Deauville (F) back in October 1978. A photo of Baverey in the official meeting brochure, shows a T35 with the licence plate 4340 RC 42. So, this must have been 4906.
The photo of 4906 in the Raffaelli book "Memoirs of a Bugatti Hunter" (page 179) still shows the same licence plate ("Departement-42" Lyon) while in the ownership of Baverey.

After that, the history of the car is a bit misty and the Retromobile 2009 was actually the first re-appearance of 4906 after quite some "hibernation". Sadly and strangely, any attempt to research the history of the car in France in the past resulted in a wall of silence.

Johan Buchner · **Posted:** Mon Feb 16, 2009 5:01 pm

Thingfish wrote : "The photo of 4906 in the Raffaelli book "Memoirs of a Bugatti Hunter" (page 179) still shows the same licence plate ("Departement-42" Lyon) while in the ownership of Baverey."

Quoting in full from Memoirs etc. p179 "Registered 4340 RC 42 in Loire departement." My knowledge of France and the French language is practically non-existant, but I believe "Loire" is a region. Is Lyon then the town within the Loire Region?

Thingfish wrote : "Sadly and strangely, any attempt to research the history of the car in France in the past resulted in a wall of silence."
Sad but true, I wonder why some people take such delight in keeping their cars and the details a secret?

Finally, I love your posts, they are so detailed. Till you fleshed it out, 4906's entry in Memoirs of a Bugatti hunter was just a chassis number and a photo. You've given it some welcome context. Thank you very much.

Kind Regards
Johan Buchner

thingfish · **Joined:** Mon Feb 09, 2009 8:08 pm **Posts:** 38

Johan, you are absolutely right ... I meant "Departement-42, Loire" not "...-Lyon".
The city of Lyon is of course in the Departement Loire, hence the mix-up.

Regards

bugatti69 · **Posted:** Mon Feb 16, 2009 5:10 pm

The city of Lyon is in the Departement Rhône 69

#4906 on wiki:

http://www.bugattibuilder.com/wiki/index.php?title=4906

thingfish · **Joined:** Mon Feb 09, 2009 8:08 pm **Posts:** 38

So, it is an error in my notes ... Lyon/Loire are not in the same region ...
Thanks for letting know bugatti69 !
;-)

[/img]

thingfish · **Joined:** Mon Feb 09, 2009 8:08 pm **Posts:** 38

Here is a scan of the 1978 Deauville Meeting brochure:

[url]<a href="http://www.bugattibuilder.com/photo/albums/userpics/10249/4906_Bugatti_Meeting_Deauville_October_1978.jpg"><img src="http://www.bugattibuilder.com/photo/albums/userpics/10249/normal_4906_Bugatti_Meeting_Deauville_October_1978.jpg" alt="No Title"></a>[/url]

Car 4906

Who is online