do any body know why The T 251 at Reims GP 1956 had 2 diffrent cars with the same start number 28 or why the cars had the same number

Per Hjeds

only one car was entered and Trintignant had to decide which was best to use.In the event he decided on car 2 with engine 1 so the engine was taken out of the mule the night before the race and fitted into car 2.both cars having been prepared to race and both having the same race number.I will take this opportunity to dispose of a falacy in Borgesons article on this subject.The suggestion that the car was shortened in a "panic operation" before the race is ridiculous.Apart from the obvious difficulties in cutting the chassis tubes and rewelding them straight,there was the question of three tubes being used for water from front to back ! and one for oil.As well as this the car could not be shortened at any point where there were radius rods because they would have had to be shortened as well.which leaves the area in the centre where the driver sits.So the driver had to be shorter not to mention the two petrol tanks [one each side of the cockpit.And all this in a panic before the race.I think not.My car is built to columbos original drawing and I have some difficulty squeezing into the driving seat,I would not like to try making it smaller.

Type-251
Models of JPS nr:80A,80B en 80C

http://cgi.ebay.nl/Bugatti-Type-251-For ... 240%3A1318

More info ,text T.251

I hesitate to argue with Lazarus but I always thought that the car listed in Wiki as 251 001 was the first car built and also the car used in the Grand Prix.

Surely the picture showing the car passing the overflowing pits was taken on race day ? I can dig out Motor Sport and check.

You were wise to hesitate,However I called one of the four engineers [that designed the T251] five minutes ago just to be on the safe side.The car that raced according to him was the second car 002.The engine used however was taken from the mule 001.He was there at the pits on the day.It was over half a century ago and his memory may be at fault.The photos taken during the race do show the early style body.So was the later body on the mule [prototype]? Considering how recent this all is it is remarkable how little we know.Lord Raglan was there for the race but cannot remember anything about this car because he went to see the ferrari's !

I amazes me that you consistently use the name columbo when I think you mean Giacchino Colombo. I would suggest a litle bit more respect Lazarus.
Bugwrench

Solves a crime every week. On his own...

Did not find a picture of Giochiamo Colombo...

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Buy on Ebay;

http://cgi.ebay.nl/BUGATTI-TYPE-251-195 ... 240%3A1318

For the want of anythng more interesting to do last night I had a close look at some pictures of the two type 251 cars which turned up at the 1956 French Grand Prix.

There is NO possibility that the bodywork could have been exchanged betweeen the two cars. The two sets of bodywork are different, reflecting differences underneath.

The first car was modified as it developed and was the car which was raced - of that I have no doubt.

Probably Roland had hoped to have the second car on the grid but in the time-honoured Molsheim fashion it wasn't sufficiently sorted.

Unfortunately the collection of Wiki photographs of the second car "251002" includes several of the first car despite their appearances being quite different. (It has been said that the two cars did not have chassis numbers but I have no way of knowing for sure).

What makes you so sure that the car with the later modified bodywork is T251 002 ? The car that raced was recently at Goodwood and I took this photo of its chassis plate.I shall keep you all in suspense

Lazarus, there has been more then enough suspense in our lives thanks to the attacks on Wiki.

Show us the money !!! Or better still, the information.

Regards, Jeroen

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Can I remind Lazarus of a certain "type 35B" we were both involved with some time ago. Did the chassis plate on that car, genuine as it undoubtedly was, really belong on a GP ? I think not.

Chassis plates prove NOTHING. Whatever the number now on the chassis plate the car which raced was the first one made. The second car looks as if it was only just finished in time for practice and lacked the rear-view mirrors and upholstery of the earlier car. Does the appearance of Roland in the pits wearing goggles suggest that the car was driven from Molsheim to Rheims by road to enable Trintignant to practice with it ?

Oh well if you insist ! The "mule" was the test vehicle.It has no chassis number.It's engine was taken the night before the race for the "first car" which raced at Reims [T251 001 ].The mule was used after Reims by Roland Bugatti and Marco to try the new leaf spring suspension.It is in the schlumph museum and it is the car with the body removed for display.The car that raced has the number T251 001.There is no T251 002.T251 001 still has the odd crossover suspension.If a certain well known Bugatti scribe had bothered to study this period in the 1960's there would be less confusion today.

Leaf springs? I see coils!
Bugwrench