It is currently Sun Jul 21, 2024 11:25 pm

All times are UTC + 1 hour




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 54 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Dovaz collection
PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2009 7:59 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Nov 04, 2008 5:07 pm
Posts: 1018
Location: Vienne France
Orginal post

Perhaps if M.Dovaz had kept his cars in better condition then it might have been a restorable galibier rather than the usual french wreck.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2009 8:33 pm 
Offline
Valued contributor

Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2007 10:39 am
Posts: 1029
Location: Port Elizabeth; South Africa
So you're not a sentimental man then? I rather like the romance and the faded grandeur of the Dovaz cars, but then again, it's not my money that has pay to for their resurrection.

Johan


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: sentimentality
PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2009 8:49 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Nov 04, 2008 5:07 pm
Posts: 1018
Location: Vienne France
Johan Buchner wrote:
So you're not a sentimental man then? I rather like the romance and the faded grandeur of the Dovaz cars, but then again, it's not my money that has pay to for their resurrection.

Johan
I am very sentimental but why let something rot beyond the point of economic repair? As one of the people who has dedicated his life to the restoration of old cars I resent the extra unnecessary work that this man has caused.Schlumpf may have been a dreadful hoarder but he did at least have his cars nicely turned out and looked after.It is a strange facet of the french mentality that they seem to prefer 60 wrecks than 2 nice cars in good working order. I love them dearly and that is why i live here but sometimes I want to weep ! Would the Galibier have had its body changed if it had been in good usable condition?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2009 9:07 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2009 4:47 am
Posts: 45
So what happend to Michel Dovaz's collection? I know there is a whole book on the subject, but can anyone provide a short summary on why the cars essentially rotted, then how they became sold?
Thanks,
Erik


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2009 8:55 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2006 9:18 am
Posts: 1008
Location: Netherlands, Nieuwegein
See for some info:

http://www.bugattirevue.com/revue30/sarlat.htm

For the definitive story, you'll have to wait for the English version of the book: http://www.bugattipage.com/book19.htm (Contact details of the author on that page.

And, maybe Dovaz could have kept his cars better, but without him the majority of these cars would have been scrapped! Most of Dovaz' more important cars were successfully restored.

_________________
www.BugattiPage.com
www.BugattiRevue.com
www.BugattiAircraft.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2009 2:43 pm 
Offline
Valued contributor

Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2007 10:39 am
Posts: 1029
Location: Port Elizabeth; South Africa
I don't know about the rest of you, but I find opinions contrary to my own the most fascinating. And rarely have I had a difference of opinion as passionate as the one I have with Lazarus, owner of a bodacious collection of Bugattis, it must be kept in mind. But instead of immediately offering up a reply I let the issue of the Dovaz cars simmer in my mind, hoping for some understanding, some insight into the thought process of someone I hold in particularly high regard. It came, oh it came alright, but finding the words to express the complexity of the many thoughts whizzing around inside my skull - well, that is proving to be a surprisingly delicate process.

The reasonable human being can, of course, debate an issue without causing offence, myself, I'm not so sure about. And then it hit me, myself and Lazarus have two completely different mind-sets. Of course it is easy for me to be swayed by the awesome romance of an eccentric elderly French gentleman and his divinely rotting Bugattis, what's not to love? The world over super-rich collectors are vying with one another to see who can over-restore and/or over-develop their cars, why wouldn't I fall passionately in love with the idea of a man buying cars to use and to use hard, and when they break down, which they all did eventually, he simply parked them up and moved on to the next one.

I do not own a Bugatti, and most probably I never will. But Lazarus does, and moreover, he works on his cars himself, building, creating, resurrecting, restoring, maintaining with his own hands. To him a truly rotten Bugatti cannot ever be a romance. How can it be? He has had to retrieve and resuscitate those very components. Rebuild seized solid engines. Replace rotted wood, leather, cloth, wiring, tyres, aluminium, steel and yes, paint. No, not so romantic.

The difference between theory and practice. The difference between achieving something and merely looking at the pictures. And my words are merely that, words. And that is all any opinion I might hold will ever produce - more words. But an opinion held by Lazarus may result in the rebirth of the Machine Sacred. Virgin territory in my brain. Thinking. Thoughts. Theory.

When I get home I'll do a summary of the 9 Dovaz Bugattis, and post it onto this thread when I'm done. I wonder what I will feel then, what I will think then. Theory. Bugatti.

Johan


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2009 4:10 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2009 4:47 am
Posts: 45
J.J.Horst wrote:
See for some info:

http://www.bugattirevue.com/revue30/sarlat.htm

For the definitive story, you'll have to wait for the English version of the book: http://www.bugattipage.com/book19.htm (Contact details of the author on that page.

And, maybe Dovaz could have kept his cars better, but without him the majority of these cars would have been scrapped! Most of Dovaz' more important cars were successfully restored.

Your link says the cars are still with Dovaz, how long ago did he sell them, and was there a big auction etc?
Erik


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2009 4:14 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2006 9:18 am
Posts: 1008
Location: Netherlands, Nieuwegein
He did sell some of them, some where for a long time in the Sarlat museum. This museum was closed and there was a reasonably big auction.

_________________
www.BugattiPage.com
www.BugattiRevue.com
www.BugattiAircraft.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2009 4:37 pm 
Offline
Valued contributor

Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2007 10:39 am
Posts: 1029
Location: Port Elizabeth; South Africa
Hi Eric & Jaap

I've just come home and I am already getting the list together ; it will take a while, some of the cars have surprisingly convoluted histories. But briefly, yes there was an auction where the majority of the cars were sold. It was in Lyon in 1993, but they were not sold by M. Dovaz, he had already sold 7 of the 9 Bugattis in 1990 for 1.2 million Pounds (British) Details to follow.

Johan


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2009 6:17 pm 
Offline
Valued contributor

Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2007 10:39 am
Posts: 1029
Location: Port Elizabeth; South Africa
Bugatti Type 44
Chassis Number : 44580
Engine Number : unknown

This Bugatti bodied Fiacre Coupe was delivered in 1928 to the banker Baron Leo d'Erlanger. The next owner was Rene Veignant who bought the car in 1946. Henri Novo, famed French Bugatti specialist became the next owner and it was he who fitted the Grebel headlights and T49 alloy wheels. Sometime during the 1950's Michel Dovaz bought her and kept her in steadily decaying condition until 1990 when he sold 44580 together with 6 other Bugattis to French pharmaceutical industrialist Jean-Michel Bonabosch, who in turn sold the T44 plus two other Bugattis to another, unnamed, Frenchman in whose possession all three still resides.

44580 underwent a thorough restoration between 1994 & 1997 and is today in concours condition after making its post restoration debut at the 1997 Retromobile and the Louis Vuitton Classic of the same year.
Image
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2009 6:35 pm 
Offline
Valued contributor

Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2007 10:39 am
Posts: 1029
Location: Port Elizabeth; South Africa
Bugatti Type 49
Chassis Number : 49410
Engine Number : unknown

With Faux Cabriolet body by Gangloff and delivered to one Pierre Colin of Soisson in April 1932, nothing else is known of the history of this car until Michel Dovaz acquired her. Even the exact date when he bought 49410 is now lost in the mist of time. Another one of the 7 to be sold to Jean-Michel Bonabosch, and one of three then sold on to the current mystery French owner who has had this touring Bugatti restored to concours condition.
Image
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2009 6:42 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Sep 06, 2006 5:58 pm
Posts: 2810
Michel Dovaz

http://www.bugattibuilder.com/articles/ ... auties.htm


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2009 7:02 pm 
Offline
Valued contributor

Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2007 10:39 am
Posts: 1029
Location: Port Elizabeth; South Africa
Bugatti Type 50
Chassis Number : 50113
Engine Number : unknown

The Dovaz T50 without a Le Mans history, and the second lowest chassis number of the T50 series, 50112 being the lowest. Completed by the works in October 1930 and delivered to Dominique Lamberjack in January 1931 who in turn charged Parisian coachbuilder Million-Guiet with fitting the innovative frameless aluminium coachwork it still carries. In 1936 50113 appeared in the movie "Le Crime de Monsieur Lange" by Jean Renoir. After the war a gentleman by name of Varenne carried out extensive cosmetic changes to the body, fitting front and rear wings from, apparently, a T57 and the vertical windscreen was swept back to create an effect not dissimilar to a Ventoux. In this configuration Michel Dovaz acquired her in 1956 and was another Bugatti to be sold to M. Bonabosch in 1990. Then on the 16th of March 1993 Anaf in Lyon auctioned 50113 off to the present owner, Gerhard von Raffay for 830 000 Francs. A superb restoration back to original Million-Guiet was carried out, and I am a minority of one who wish the post war changes were kept intact.
Image
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2009 7:22 pm 
Offline
Valued contributor

Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2007 10:39 am
Posts: 1029
Location: Port Elizabeth; South Africa
And now I'm going to take a break since I have a headache. Stay tuned for the 2nd T50, 50131.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2009 7:29 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2009 4:47 am
Posts: 45
Johan Buchner wrote:
And now I'm going to take a break since I have a headache. Stay tuned for the 2nd T50, 50131.

Thanks for all the information!! I look forward to the rest, and does anyone know why Dovaz decided to sell in 1990 after keeping the cars so long?
Erik


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 54 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next

All times are UTC + 1 hour


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  

Valid CSS :: Valid XHTML Copyright © 2007 by Bugattibuilder.com :: Disclaimer :: Contact :: Advertising possibilities

Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group