Currently on Ebay there is a Bugatti Type 35B. (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=017&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3APIC&viewitem=&item=270170436217&rd=1)

In the description there is a confusing and convoluted line about what constitutes a genuine Bugatti. Something about three components from and original and you can call it a genuine Bugatti. Frankly, I have trouble with that. Does that mean I can buy three parts such as a drive shaft, a water pump and a beat up magnito, glue them onto my replica with a Japanese engine and call it a Bugatti? I don't think so! The one on Ebay is a replica built in Argentina by Pur Sang. They do a good job of copying from the original - no doubt about it. But what they are selling is, in my view, not a genuine Bugatti.

Maybe it's just me...Maybe it is because I think it is dishonest to suggest something I built is actually something somebody else built. Plagerism and other forms of intellectual property pilfering doesn't set well with me. I know what you are thinking! Here I am building a replica Bugatti. Right. Difference is: I am not in any way taking anything away from anybody but rather, if anything, flattering the original by attempting to recreate the sensation. My car is in no way a "knockoff" nor am I trying in any way to defraud anybody or anything.

To my way of thinking, a Bugatti is a car built in Molsheim France. There is some gray area to be sure. Can two original Bugatti's be used to make one complete car, for example? I would think that is acceptable. I would think most situations such as that are acceptable as long as they are not misrepresented.

Actually it is simple:

There are 5 main components on a Bugatti:

-chassis
-engine
-front axle
-rear axle
-gearbox

If 3 of 5 are original, you can claim for an original car.

The car pictured on the internet is not an original car: It is a replica, built by Pur Sang in Argentina. Very exciting though...

_________________
Vive la Marque !!

It is the copy, in all its details, including engine 192 TC, of the 4938 of Louis Chiron (1929).

The original was present at Rétromobile in 2006

http://wiki.bugattibuilder.com/index.php?title=4938

The Pur Sang cars are absolutely great, once I can afford one I will buy one. However, they are what they are - replicas! So for me there would be only one option - new registration with modern VIN. No classic racing or rallying, simply driving it for fun.

There had been rumours that the Pur Sang cars are available with period registration if a customer wishes so. This rumour now is confirmed if you look at the title documents linked to the eBay sale:
http://s236.photobucket.com/albums/ff18 ... CN0740.jpg
http://s236.photobucket.com/albums/ff18 ... CN0739.jpg
It shows an original T35B of 1928 with s/n 4938.
We all know that 4938 exists, but it is not this car.
The title is issued with date 25.11.1976, whereas Pur Sang started to build complete cars only 1997 (afaik).

I seriously doubt that the eBay car achieved "originality" by major original components, but only by an Argentinian title which is more than doubtful.
I don't know the actual sales price, but 3 years ago it was US$ 135.000. And this "title" obviously doubles the value of car...!
The eBay seller is at least partly honest by disclosing the replica status, however, offering the car as #4938 IMHO is illegal and fraudulent.

The reserve was not met for the auction, but it has been relisted:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayI ... 0172877437

-

Thank you Michael Müller for these precise details


#4938 original: http://wiki.bugattibuilder.com/index.php?title=4938

#4938-R copy : http://wiki.bugattibuilder.com/index.php?title=4938-R

Thank lot Michael Müller for that

_________________
Make your dream devour your life, so that life doesn't devour your dream.
[Antoine de Saint-Exupéry]

Just sniffing a little bit in the chassis number database.
http://www.bugattibuilder.com/wiki/index.php?title=4484
There is a gap in the serials from #4459 to #4486, so there never was a #4484. The #44XX series is from 1925, so far before the T35C and the larger brake drums had been introduced.

http://www.bugattibuilder.com/wiki/index.php?title=4788

Serial belongs to a T35A Tecla, now it's a T35B with alloy wheels, large brake drums, and Targa radiator....


http://www.bugattibuilder.com/wiki/index.php?title=4798
http://www.bugattibuilder.com/wiki/index.php?title=4818

The same...

http://www.bugattibuilder.com/wiki/inde ... tle=4796-b

Fake!
The history of the real #4796 is well documented, it's the car which German race driver Charlie Kappler used in 1926 before he bought a new T35C. Already before the war it was owned by Kurt Kiefer, who in the 50's became president of the German Bugatti Club for many years. It's now owned by the actual GBC president.

It is unbelievable that such replicas are accepted at main historic events like the Mille Miglia Storica...!

I stop now, because it's getting more and more frustrating!
Numerous numbers originally used for T35A Teclas appear as T35B or even T51, T35 Lyon models show up with superchargers, alloy wheels, and large break drums, and so on and so on...!

It is a good thing to find out the history of the car.

Many have been converted to upgraded specs, but my opinion is that it is crucial to find out when if was converted.

Even more important is to find out if these cars have new chassis, or even completely new cars, with "old" chassis number.

_________________
Vive la Marque !!

Only very few cars had been converted / upgraded in period, and most of them are well documented because they have been used in competition. The normal way was to return the old model to Molsheim and buy a new one.
To convert a Tecla into a T35B was pure nonsens, it was cheaper to sell it and buy a 2nd hand GP model.

The Argentinians are running out of numbers, and obviously their data base is not up to date. Or how will you explain that cars with a bulletproof history are "duplicated"? Most real GP cars are rather good documented, but for most of the Teclas we only have the original factory files showing the agent to whom the car was delivered. Most of them never had been raced, so there are no photos, no race numbers, and no registration plates. They simply had been scrapped and forgotten...!

Indeed. And that is why it is a good thing to have the history of the car readily available, from anywhere in the world. The WIKI is a great thing for that. Although it still contains a lot of errors and omissions, many chassis numbers have a relative complete history now.

Keep posting your reactions to the information on the WIKI. It is the only way to improve the information on the WIKI.

I am sure that Christian (Bugatti69) will pick up your comments and process them.

If you like to change the info on the WIKI yourself, look here for instructions: http://www.bugattibuilder.com/wiki/index.php?title=Simple_instructions

_________________
Vive la Marque !!

Thanks Herman and Michael

There is no such thing as too much knowledge when it comes to Bugattis and Michael, I can feel your frustration all the way down here in the south of the African continent! I thank you for the knowledge you share with us; rest assured, your research is pure gold. And the only people who could possibly object obviously have something to hide. Do not stop, please!

I have a suggestion for Wiki - those cars that are still completely original, not only mechanically, but also the original coachwork still fitted, how about identifying them on Wiki as 6/6 Bugattis?

You know, the 5 mechanical components (Engine, gearbox, chassis and the front and rear suspensions) plus the body. This can be done quite easily for the surviving touring cars, but as far as the Grand Prix Bugattis go, I foresee problems. Am I correct in believing that almost no T35s still have their original bodies?

And what about the T13 racers. Can one even talk about coachwork when the most noticable part of the body is the circular petrol tank?

I also have no answers for cars rebodied or upgraded in period. But I still believe there to be merit in identifying those rare, intact, survivors. Of all the suriving Brescias, only a handfull are still completely original. Will it serve a purpose to single them out?

What do you think?

Regards
Johan Buchner

Let's face the facts.
max. 47 T35B had been built, of which at least 3 officially had been converted and renumbered to T51. Another 3 may have been T35C instead of B, so the figure may be between 40 and 44 max.

The Wiki database contains 37 T35B existing today, plus 6 with BC (Bugatti Owners Club) numberings, plus 7 declared or identified replicas. The section "unidentified" show another 33 T35B, plus several "T35" where the exact type probably is not known. And not to forget - the Wiki database for sure is not complete....!

When running through Wiki it can be found that a lot of the actual T35B's carry serial numbers of T35A's. On paper there's only a small step between A and B, but in practice the difference is much larger. I sincerely doubt that ANY T35A was converted to T35B in period, because it would have been cheaper to buy a real one. Also at least 5 T35C could be spotted which carry serials of Teclas (The 35A).

Yes, there are still T35's around with absolute original bodywork. Check Wiki number by number and look at the photos.