Bashing the Bugatti Trust was such a lot of fun when I was the only one doing it, but it seems to becoming popular, so I am now going to start defending it. Why? Well I rather like being a minority, you see. And the Bugatti Trust did recognise the value of Stuart's project. Just imagine that, a complete stranger rocks up on their doorstep and announces that he wants to digitise a T35, and their response is : "Splendid idea! How can we help?"

I remember when Stuart first announced this project I was very sceptical indeed, (you may recall........) but the more I think about it, the more I am in awe of it. Can you imagine getting that deep into the creative process of Ettore and the entire design/manufacturing empire he created?

I have read a lot of revisionist nonsense about how Ettore never designed the T35, but simply paid talented designers, and then took all the credit for himself. That's such a load of crap; Ettore created the factory at Molsheim, he thought of it, he staffed it, but most important of all, he surrounded himself with the right people, who did, on the whole, everything Ettore could reasonably expect of them. And I'm not just talking about employees. There were financiers, socialites, aristocracy and he made a point of keeping good relations with the best-known journalists of the day. Creation - design - build - race - sell - achieve immortality. He had, what George Bush called : "That vision thing." Genius can be so elegant.

And did Stuart pick a Delage? He did not. Did he pick a Talbot? He did not. Neither did he chose an Alfa Romeo P3. (sometimes erroneously called the Tipo B - I like being ME, so much!) No, he chose the Bugatti Type 35. But here's the really interesting thing; I am prepared to spend my own money for a virtual interaction with a T35. What will I get for my money? I don't have a clue, but I am curious enough to send some serious cash on to the Bugatti Trust.

Which begs the question : How did my prejudice against the Bugatti Trust start? Legaleagel provided the answer in a recent post, when he talked about the Price T57 & 44 books. I bought the one on T46 & 50; it was my second cheapest Bugatti book, and two days after I got it, it became an ornament. Not so much the mistakes you see, but it stopped teaching me and it stopped entertaining me, so it's a rip-off. That's what I want in return for my money - good value. Magnum, though expensive, is excellent value. Great Marques : Bugatti, the cheapest book on Bugattis I have, is equally good value. I've had mine for more than twenty years and just last night I read the chapter on the Grand Prix cars for the umpteenth time. That is Conways great gift, he wrote well. I am never done with him.

The Bugatti Trust is the brainchild of Hugh Conway, and when Barrie Price use his vile little tomes to drum up support for the Trust, when he is so obviously unworthy of even mentioning the name of Hugh Conway, well, then I just start throwing my toys right out the cot. He is simply not good enough.(And he crashed EXK 6 - Let's flog him.) Richard Day and the rest of the team recognised Stuarts project as worthy. Makes up for a lot that. Maybe not all Barrie Price's booklets, but the T46 & 50? Sure, almost. As technology develops over time, the Bugatti Trust will, I'm sure, find a way to sell me an interactive experience that will, in it's own way, be of lasting value to me.

I am comfortable with the Bugatti Owners Club charging a membership fee; after all, if you can afford a Bugatti, you can afford to join the club. But I believe that Hugh Conway intended his work for people like myself also. Love Bugattis, but can't afford one. I'm not sure that I am prepared to spend my money belonging to the Trust, but I am very supportive of the Trust making products available to the impecunious Bugatti lover. Let me be clear, I am not looking for cheap; I am looking for a good deal.

About the albums, herewith my advise : I would not buy a photo, no matter how beautifully it is printed, but I would buy a photo and caption book on the right subject. A subject that is not covered by the established literature. Sure, there are some fabulous racing photographs - I can see most of them by opening up any of my Conways. But I would be interested in a book dealing with Bugattis at the various Salons. And I am very interested in pre-war Concours. It was research into a the Cannes Concours that provided Perre-Yves Laugier with proof that 57453 and 57473 were two different Atlantics. Nobody has covered Bugatti's Concours success's, except Ettore, but he used the results to flesh out the racing results. I've said it before; I'll say it again - GENIUS. Oh come on, surely you didn't think that the T35 really won 2000 races, did you?

The nice thing about concentrating on those of us who cannot afford a Bugatti is that there are so many of us; many more than those who can afford the real thing. I mean, just look at this forum ; once I've posted this, it will be read all over the world, from Chile to the Czech Republic, maybe even South Africa. And anyone is welcome to comment. But I would never have thought that an internet forum is something I wish to belong to, anymore than I could have imagined digitising a Bugatti. It's what I don't know that keeps me coming back.

Case in point : The photos of the replica who, purely for convenience sake you understand, is forced to wear the identity 4938, enabled me , for the very first time, to identify a T35 as non-original. It was the interior shot that did it, and I still say that tail slopes down too far. This is something that I would not have been able to do even a few weeks ago. But the burgundy T35 which was photographed at the Molsheim Festival? Not a chance. Beatiful patina, don't you think. But I take comfort from the fact that I belong to the same forum as a group of people who can, at a glance, spot a fake; especially if being sold as original. And I learn from them.

I do not understand my love for Bugattis; it is not a sensible thing to feel so much for a car, yet I cannot help myself. And I no longer confine myself to just certain Types, no I want to know everything about all of them and all the people whose lives they touch. But my prejudice against those who value their egos as more important than the historic value of great Bugattis remain very strong. Vermin, the bunch of 'em.

I like other marques too, but with Delage, for instance, I like the DS 8-120 Aerosport. The earlier racing racing cars? Not for me thanks. Mercedes Benz SS ; SSK & 500K ; 540K by all means, but feel free to keep your post-war diesels. Hispano? Tulipwood yes. J12? Only the pretty ones please. Duesenbergs? The Mighty J, oooh yesss. Model A? Spare me. V12 Packards only, V16 Caddilacs only, Daimler Double Sixes is a go, as long as they've won Pebble Beach. Rolls Royce and Bentleys I like as long as the coachwork is elegant, but with Bentleys that Van den Plas tourer thing has just gotten completely out of hand. Just like replica T35's then.

And then there is Ferrari. Ferraris are special, especially the F1 cars. I wish Kimmi wasn't a zombie, but there you go. Ferraris bring out the closet modernist in me, wasn't it Enzo who, when asked which was his favourite car, replied : "The next one" That sort of sums up Ferrari for me as well, but I never touch Ferrari on the internet, there is just way too much information I do not need. I have seen enough Enzo's, just as I have seen enough of the Veyron. The Veyron offends me, since when has a Bugatti ever been the fastest car on the planet? It should have been prettier and refused to start on cold mornings, and needs it crankshaft re-rollered every 500 miles. Now that would have been more in keeping with the spirit of Ettore. The Veyron makes me want to invade Poland. That Ferdinand Piech is such a little scamp. And so cute, what with trying to take over ze vorld.

I think I'm done. Oh, one last thing : The Bugatt Trust rocks Bro!!

Johan Buchner

PS. I joined in September 2007 - that was more than 100 posts ago. Time flies, eh?

Well, at least the Trust puts it's newsletters on the Internet, for everybody to read! They are there half a year after the members receive them, but still it's free! And there is a lot of interesting stuff there!

By the way, Pegasus, the Newsletter of the Bugatti Aircraft Association is not on the Internet. On purpose; people who want to know about the airplane, should become a member, so they are known and their information and knowledge can flow back into the club!

On the other hand, the Bugatti Revue has been free since the start (in 1995).

_________________
www.BugattiPage.com
www.BugattiRevue.com
www.BugattiAircraft.com

Thanks for that Johan!

The Trust is £25 a year for UK residents and £27 for non-UK......does the low entry price tempt you?

Kind Regards


SB

I could never understand John's antagonistic attitude to the Trust.

Could I suggest that David Sewell and Richard Day know more about Bugattis than the entire membership of the Forum ?

When I visit England I find all the lovely people at the Trust so welcoming.

I find it surprising is that a Charitable Trust with the objective of facilitating the study of Ettore's works should publish its pictures on the internet covered by logos preventing their study.

We all provide our photos free for the world to look at !

Spoke to Mr. Horton who is upset by John's letter about postage and suggested it be sorted in private.

The Stoneleigh Historic Motorsport Show had no Bugatti on show for the first time. The Bugatti Owners Club had a modern "plastic" car on its stand promoting La Vie en Bleu. I asked if they could supply me with regulations for the only race they promote (The Williams Trophy). The lady I spoke to did not know who Williams was and had not heard of the Williams Trophy.

Previously I had phoned the BOC bureau for regulations and they referred me to the England VSCC who in turn referred me back to the BOC.

Bizarre that the premier Bugatti event has not regulations ! Therefore competitors in a race for pre-1934 2-seat GPs run with cars which are NOT GP cars, were NOT built before 1934 and which run with modern, completely non-standard carburettors. Will Richard S. be trying fuel-injection soon ?

The England Registrar was working hard in the autojumble. When will the post of Registrar be made a full-time paid appointment so he (or she) can start sorting out the mess of the present registre which includes cars which are NOT, repeat NOT, Bugattis and which are called REPLICAS but most definitely are NOT.

A lot of sub-prime tat was on sale with the Bugatti logo. Has this rubbish been licenced ?

All round, a very depressing show.

About your friend Ben Horton.

1)Privacy is not an option, he runs an international business, and I am a very pissed off ex-client who feels he has taken advantage of.

2) I am still waiting for the invoice he promised to send me. According to Ben Horton he has documented proof that I owe him another 100 GBP over and above the 848 GBP he allready received from me. The contents of said invoice will be shared with all on this forum.

3) My name is Johan, not John.

David Sewell is in no way related to the Trust and although I hold David in high esteem you possibly underestimate the Bugatti knowledge of some members of this Forum.



This is exactly the reason why some well known and repectable Bugatti Historians around the world have a problem with the Trust.



This is very typical for the BOC. When I asked why they allowed fake cars with a Bugatti logo on the radiator to run in the Williams Trophy race, the answer was that it was up to the VSCC to judge that. When I asked the VSCC the answer was that the BOC forced them to allow these fake cars to participate.



The recently constructed big size SU type carburettors should not be allowed in the Willams Trophy or any other VSCC event as there is nothing historic about them except the constant vacuum principle they are based on. However the carb that Charly Dean is using is still an original Zenith 48K but modified to flow enough methanol. Remember that these cars were not meant to run on methanol but on a mix of ethanol and benzol which has a far higher caloric value. The 48K carb has to be modified to flow the gallon a minute of methanol needed for a racing T35B or C and T51.


The Registrar function is part of the BOC and not of the Trust. It is also the BOC that made some bad decision concerning replicas and fakes.
The Trust is nor involved in that.
Bugwrench

I saw Dean's "mecano" changing a jet in his carb. at Monaco.

It had twin float chambers and external piping. Looked like no Zenith I've seen before ! He told me he took two years making it work.

Yes, you need two needles to flow enough fuel and you need external piping to make the connection but the carburettor body is still the original Zenith 48K bronze casting. Take a better look next time.
Bugwrench

To prevent slashing: Hunter meant that the Zenith carb looked great.

_________________
Vive la Marque !!

Seventy-five years ago at Monaco Chiron managed to force Nuvolari to over-rev and blow his 8C engine using, I assume, a standard carb.

With enough time and money we can all make our Bugattis go faster BUT there are supposed to be RULES which, as I understand it, normally restrict the numbre of jets and float chambers we use to what prevailed in the twenties and thirties.

At least one Bugatti acquaintance has employed the services of an employee of C******h to improve his cylinder head.

Do the new FIA historic rules allow this ?

Very good question.

Of course it is possible, with modern techniques, to improve those old designs, and make them perform better.

And that is where difficulties start. To allow for racing, what is acceptable, and what is not.

It will be no surprise that tyres have come a long way since 1924, fuels are cleaner, and if one has deep pockets, high performance fuels are available. Same goes for a lot of other materials (hoses, brake liners, spark plugs and wires, etc). So performance and reliability have improved over the years.

However, all these improvements are not alterations of design. It is a development in materials, that gives these advantages.

Alterations, like installing a second needle in your carb, are different. But even then there is a huge grey area:
What if the car will not run satisfactory on a carb with one needle, because fuel has changed over the years? Either buy the ingredients for your own fuel, or install a second needle?

This can be an interesting discussion...

_________________
Vive la Marque !!

I obviously did not make myself clear the first time. The fuel Chiron used in Monaco to beat Nuvolari is unobtainable today. The modern substitute is methanol which has a calorific value about half of the fuel used at the time. This means that for not risking to run lean you have to flow double the quantity of fuel than the carb was designed for. The Zenith 48K carburettor has a design flaw which restrict the incoming fuel flow as soon as you try to get more fuel passed the needle.
If you seriously want to race your 35 or 51 without risking that you engine runs lean at high revs full throttle you have a choice.
You can either fit a modern product based on the SU principle that never ever was fitted by Bugatti or you can modify the original carburettor to flow enough methanol. I am glad Charles Dean opted for the latter.

Talking about modification beyond the period specs. How come the VSCC allows these ridiculous wide rims and tires that most cars (not bugattis) are equipped with. And what about using limited slip differentials in cars that never had one?
Bugwrench

Our friend Julian M. runs on a standard carb. and was only a couple of yards behind Charlie at Monaco when he hit the barrier.

No one has answered Mr. Legaleagle's question - DID Mr. DEAN'S CARBURETTOR COMPLY WITH FIA HISTORIC REGULATIONS - if not, someone should put in a protest.

Has the BOC managed to write some regulations for its Williams Trophy yet and if so, do they allow runners to use SU carbs ?

Will aero-engined cars made a couple of years ago and Brooklands specials be allowed to run again ?

Julian's carb is far from standard although he does not use a second
floatchamber like in the Charles Dean modification. He uses a clever needle valve modification by Tim Dutton that circumvents the Zenith design error and which seems to work fine.
Like I said before the carb has to flow a gallon a minute and believe me you have to modify the carb to do that.



At least it should be a lot closer to being legal than the SU type of carb.



I appreciate your optimism but.... what can you expect from a Club accepting Argentinian fakes with plain bearing engines with the wrong firing order and electronic ignition and in many details not being close to the real thing etc.?
Bugwrench

1 : compare the lovely brass petrol tap of a the original with the off-the-shelf modern tap of the "Pur Sang".

2: compare the diameter of the pin holding the superchcarger cover (35B) and the material from which it is made. The Bugatti component is thicker and made of much high-quality steel.

3 ; see how easily the mild-steel bricolage of "Pur Sangs" rusts if the car gets wet.

If Johan wants to take a month off work and come and get his hands dirty working on one of my cars, he will soon get to appreciate the quality of original Molsheim components.

If VW really cared about the Bugatti heritage they would have taken action against "Pur Sang" to stop them using the Bugatti logo.

On the other hand, if VW understood the Bugatti heritage, they wouldn't be making the tasteless, bling-ridden monstrosity that exploits the name of one of the works team drivers who managed to escape the Nazi butchery.