Sorry if it does not make sense, I am not too bright at the moment (have been pouring concrete all evening).

About the conversion to type 51: You could first change only the engine, drive it, then afterwards also upgrade the tank with twin filler caps, could you?...

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Vive la Marque !!

Reply to Aravis, et all, The chassis number of a T37A would well be stamped on the engine and easily read and recorded over time as it appears, and referenced that way on earlier inspections, historical documents, etc.

Remember what Jurist said, The 51134 car carried a number of VERY strange German identification plates affixed to the side rails and engine mount legs.

It is good to see such a flux of cooperative info exchanged, in a fashion that is productive.

But you all are missing a point that somehow we need, and hopefully Pierre L. has approached in his book. That is the detail inspection of the cars. It tells allot. It would be easy to see if this is a T51 , a T37, or something built as one or the other.

In all this exchange, no one has examined this car. A major detail of research.

I am feeling pretty good about 51138 after looking at your inputs. Historically, you all are very keen. I do look forward to sharing the physical sides and theory on the T51 with you soon.

It takes both historical research and examinations to determine the small details on the T51a, and the T51.

I do not know of any T37 that was converted to a T51. Does anyone have evidence of this? There are logical reasons you would not, and factory production reasons also.

I see in the Magnum the delivery for 51134 is 5.32, for the record.

If someone knew the frame number of the car we are speaking of, we could quickly discover another I.D. angle.

I fully agree!

The following info I got from a friend who asked me to post it on the forum



35B ex Bremme ex Burggaller. As requested by Michael Muller I enclose picture
of the Monoposte when owned by Ernst Dietrich Troeltsch. Later the car was sold
to Leonard Joa and Fritz Georg Martin.

Thanks a lot!
However, this increases only the confusion, as the body is different to that used by Burggaller 1933/34, and also different to that of the Martin car in 1946.

Can you please ask your friend the source of this photo?

The info comes from the book: “Das grosse fahrer buch” written by Erwin Tragatsch and published in 1970

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Masarykuv Okruh = Czech Grand Prix

The car at Mulhouse is the car that has been owned - and raced - by Rudolf Steinweg (until 1935), Ernst Troeltsch (1936-37), Leonard Joa (1938), Fritz Georg Martin (1939-1947), Fritz Gerster (1947), and Paul Bittorf (1948-X).

The Bremme car was #4842, not #4853. The latter afaik went to Walther Postler of Niedersedlitz near Dresden.
#4842 was raced by Bremme in 1927, in 1928 converted to "fast travel car" with special bodywork by Bachmann, and in 1930 sold to Ernst Günther Burggaller.
For 1932 converted to 8C-1500 with engine - or parts - of unknown origin. For 1933 converted to monoplace, and end 1934 sold to Rudolf Steinweg.

The assumption that this was the car sold to Troeltsch after Steinweg's fatal accident looks logical, but most probably is wrong. Various reasons...

The car at Mulhouse is reported to be #37350 with engine from #51134. The car Burggaller sold to Steinweg was #4842 with an engine which for sure was not from #51134, as Burggaller first raced the 8C-1500 (don't believe one should call this a T51A) 2 weeks before #51134 was delivered new to Willy Escher of Switzerland.

Steinweg had another car, the T35C ex-Leiningen / ex-Kappler/ ex-Kimpel, serial unknown, which in early 1934 he converted into a real monoplace. Burggaller only shifted seat and steering to the center, but left the bodywork as such unchanged (except the additional headrest), whereas Steinweg built a complete new narrow body on a narrowed frame. When Burggaller sold #4842 to Steinweg it was converted back to standard 2-seater, possibly with the conversion parts as give-away. Obviously Steinweg only wanted the engine, the car – with standard bodywork - in 1936 appeared with Fritz Stolze of Ennigerloh. No idea whether the sale still had been effected by Steinweg in 1934/34, or after his death.

Photos confirm that Steinweg in 1935 raced 2 different cars, both (full) monoplace, both wire wheels, and both in the 1500 cc class. One had the long tail with omega-shaped head rest of his 1934 monoplace on basis T35C, large brakes drums, the other a shortened tail with small tank only, and small brake drums. The former was the Guggerberg accident car, and the also the Troeltsch (= Mulhouse) car.

The Escher T51A #51134 never raced as 1.5 litre, so most probably it was converted to 2.3 litre T51 and sold to Nellie Braillard, raced by her brother Louis and her lover Benoit Falchetto. So it is possible that the 8C-1500 engine was obselete, and found the way to Steinweg. The wire wheels combined with the small brake drums on the other side point towards a T37/37A.

My believe is that Steinweg had available 3 cars
- T35C monoplace (ex Leiningen)
- #4842 with 8C-1500 (ex Burggaller)
- #37350 T37A
- plus engine 8C-1500 from #51134
of which he created 2 racing cars, both monoplace, and both with a 8C-1500 engine. One of them was his old T35C (which had already a narrowed frame and body), the other was #37350 with a new monoplace body, and engine from #51134. The remains (chassis #4842 plus engine from the T35C) he sold to Stolze.

The Brno event before the war NEVER was "Czech Grand Prix", always "Masarykủv Okruh".

Of course...
Official program from I. Masarykuv Okruh







(From my collection)

Not sure if this is of any use on this thread, but thumbing through the Spring 76 Bugantics as "toilet reading", Conway wrote therein of 51134:

"Engine 2. This was a 1500cc car, the first delivered, the engine being 2-1500, and went to a Swiss Bugatti driver, Willy Escher on the 21st May, 1932. I have no details of this car except that it was for sale a few years ago at the Vintage Car Store in New York (Mr. E. Jurist) and was sold to Schlumpf. It had been converted at some time to a single seater. As Mr Jurist put it "the car was a unique specimen and carried a number of very strange German identification plates affixed to the side rails and engine mount legs."

Not had the time to read the whole thread, so I'm sorry if this has been written already.

Greg, every bit and piece is valuable. However, Conway was wrong about this car, as #51134 sold to Switzerland is not identical with the car at Mulhouse (Schlumpf Collection). AFAIK when the car was converted to monoplace the factory serial plate was removed due to limited space on the firewall, at least a period photo does not show it. Therefore in the 60's the chassis number as punched in the crankcase was taken for the whole car, although it only means that the engine is FROM #51134. Today this is corrected, the chassis seems to be #37350. Would be extremely interesting to see the German identification plates, but the museum is very uncooperative. They are not really interested in the history of their cars, otherwise they would not paint a car blue which had been white during all its active racing career, which lasted at least 20 years.

The museum were quite cooperative with me spending a couple of hours underneath the Royales - mind you, I had to pay them 250 euros per hour for the privelige...