COLOMBO, Gioachino. The Italian designer, famous for his work on the Alfa Romeo P2, Monza, Tipo B, Tipo 158, and Tipo 159; the Ferrari V12 and the Maserati 250F. He produced the initial designs for the type 251 project as the result of an ill-considered initiative by Roland Bugatti in October 1955 and produced the original drawings for the four-cylinder engine for the type 252 sports car (Bugantics 49/2/56). According to John Barton, the latter was a flawed design (Bugantics 52/4/41).

With regard to the type 251 Rheims race cars, I would have to question the memory of the work's mechanic. Surely it is rather unlikely that the bodywork would be interchangeable between the two cars.

M.Rene Strub was not "the works mechanic" He was the designer of the remarkable five speed gearbox.There were four designers at work on the T251,Columbo and an italian friend M Petrielli,Rene strub and M Meazze.The first drawings date from 1953 not 1954 and this design for a rear engined race car was not originally for Bugatti.Columbo conceived this idea and Bugatti happened to like it and so it became a Bugatti .It could just have easily have become a Maserati or other.I do not remember calling the T252 a flawed design,I have after all been driving mine for 6 years or more ! As to whether the body panels could be interchangable,I see no reason why not.There are quick release fasteners and this was a properly designed car.The design work for the four cylinder version was done at the same time but in a different studio to that of the T251 which was very secret.S.Meazze was most involved in the T252,[he replaced Rene Strub in 1957] I have in front of me internal orders and memos from the Prototype shop to the toolroom and they are all in Italian ! It is a strange fact that the most advanced and potentially most successful Bugatti of all time should have been allowed to fail without the proper development necessary for success.Perhaps had Jean survived instead of Roland things might have been different.

The correct name should be Meazza, NOT Meazze.Rgrds jacobug

And he just continues to you the detective's name instead of the name of the designer!
Bugwrench

In 1989, "Lazarus" referred to the open deck block design used for type 73 engines and the problems caused by differential expansion between the steel wet liners and aluminium block. He also stated that "the Colombo Type 251/2 had this same block arrangement and suffered as a result on every outing; Colombo at least should have known better" and "On almost every occasion that the new Type 252 prototype took to the road M. Macoin found himself beside the road with either oil, water or steam coming out of the bonnet."

Just a little bit flawed possibly ?

It amazes me how little I knew when I wrote that series of articles! I did not know for instance that Roland Bugatti had insisted that the engine should not have a head gasket because his father never liked them and never used them.Notwithstanding the fact that his fathers cars didn't need them because they had not got detachable heads.The T251 never had a gasket problem because Colombo knew how to make engines.The T252 tested by Pierre Macoin had the Edouard Bertrand Motor [T252 MK2a/b]which was a different kettle of fish.My T252 has a head gasket of course.

ColOmbo also made the drawing for the T125! What engine was intended for that car? Similar as T252?

_________________
www.BugattiPage.com
www.BugattiRevue.com
www.BugattiAircraft.com

BERTRAND, Edouard.

One of Ettore’s most trusted draughtsmen. He was born in Karlsruhe, Germany in 1893 and joined Bugatti in 1924. His first job was the design of tools, but soon, with Kortz, he became heavily involved in the detailed design of the type 35. He did most of the drawings for the single-seater type 36 but when Kortz died in around 1927 Bertrand was able to take over as head draughtsman specialising in engine and machine tool design. In the caption to the famous photograph taken on the occasion of Ettore’s fiftieth birthday on 15th September, 1931 he is described as the “dessinateur de nouveau”. As Ettore’s interest in his factory waned Betrand’s contribution increased. He produced layout drawings for an independently-sprung type 50S embodying double leaf springs fore and aft with a body virtually identical to the later 57S “Atlantic” and was responsible for the detailed design of a completely new all-synchromesh, dry sump gearbox in the mid-thirties based on a sketch produced by Ettore. In September 1939 he moved with the Bugatti design office to Bordeaux where he designed the tooling for the 12 cylinder Hispano Suiza but after the Armistice he returned to Molsheim and worked for the occupying Germans on their amphibian design until just before the liberation. He was deported to Offenburg, having been accused of sabotage, but survived the war and worked at a school for apprentices in Molsheim before rejoining Bugatti in 1946. However, he did not stay long as a result of a disagreement with the factory Director General, Pierre Marco. He joined the printing machinery firm Holweg in Strasbourg until rejoining Bugatti after Marco’s dismissal in 1958 where he stayed until retiring at the time of the Hispano Suiza takeover. He carried on his engine design work well into his retirement. He died at his home in Wolxheim on October 25th, 1974, aged 79. BTN 11 p. 7 (“Noel Domboy….claimed that he and Edward Bertrand designed the T68 engine before following Bugatti to Paris”).

My copy of the drawing for the T125 shows what I can only imagine is a T251 motor.The noise of four webers sucking away in a closed coupe just inches away from the drivers head would have been stressful i feel.I was interested to read about Bertrands involvement with a five speed gearbox prewar.His post war five speed box was described as being good only for "frying chips" it was removed and replaced with a ZF.There was considerable german input into the T251/2 projects,With gears syncromesh and limited slip differentials being purchased from over the border.

Please have a look at the latest image of an invoice placed on the photo server by Uwe. Lazarus asked me to post it on the forum, I asked Uwe to put it on the photo server, and now I cannot get the bloody thing to load onto the Forum!!

Could somebody please tell me how to post photos on this damn new version of the Forum?

This is a Tuesday kind of a day .......

Johan

PS. I love this thread, I've learnt more about the T251 from this discussion than from all my Conways combined.

Thanks Uwe!

This is what they were waiting one month for.EC14 a quickly adjustable tappet.The old guard were not pleased with hairpin valvesprings and spent months trying to replace them.The solution was to make the guide act as support for the bucket.An expensive and complex solution to a non existant problem.

The T252 could have been a great car; but I think that it was not produced because of a matter of profitability. In the late 50´s market many units of a 1.500 cc sports car would have had to be produced to make profits. Too many units for the standard production figures of the Bugatti factory. That is why they decided to begin the project T451, a big V12 super sports car which could be profitable built in the small numbers which had always been usual in the company.

I think that a good solution could have been to finish the development of the T252 in order to sell the project to other car maker.

Was there enough room in a T125 for the T251 engine?

[quote="LANOS"] This is an interesting idea.I personally believe that the T252 could have succeeded very well had they had the common sense to keep the detective on board [Colombo] and ban Roland from the factory.The T125 was a sketch based on the T251 and yes it was T251 engined.The rear/mid engine is transversely mounted and it would have been a major job to fit the four cylinder motor that way.Not impossible of course.The T252 could have been produced in greater numbers than the prewar car because so much was for the first time bought in from outside,such as disc brakes,ZF gearbox,ZF differential,steering rack etc.Perhaps the now unused autorail factory could have been set up as a production "chain"