As quoted from this advertisement on Ebay:

http://cgi.liveauctions.ebay.com/279-1928-Bugatti-Type-35B-Supercharged-Recreation_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ28195QQihZ005QQitemZ150220830604QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW#la-image-2

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If a car is offered for sale which has a Bugatti badge on, and is using a Bugatti chassis no. and a Bugatti type no. there must surely be some contravention of some trade description legislation ???

I have a certain respect for the Pur Sang operation but I would be much happier if their products had an oval badge on their radiator with the name Anadon in place.

These cars are nothing like as good as those they attempt to copy.

I am not that good in counting but I seem to have a problem with the nine roller bearings mentioned.
I am sure there is a reason Anadon made only three engines with a roller bearing crank. This car has only covered 100 miles from new. I guess the new owner can probably expect another 50 miles before hitting trouble.
Bugwrench

The recent article didn't mention the various mechanical probelms the car is said to have met with since it was exported to England.

Why the f*** are these Argentinian cars allowed to compete in England VINTAGE sports car races ????

Why do we discuss them in "The French Bugatti" section ?

My main gripe with the Pur Sang vehicles are that they claim to make a perfect replica from original plans, but leave in some really glaring errors/penny pinching features such as modern distributor, non standard instruments and engine alterations from standard.

I can see the logic of the engine changes, but the rest seems crazy bearing in mind that this is not marketed as a budget product - although I guess this point is relative.

Regards


SB

Courtesy of Hugh Conway herewith the details of the car entitled to the number 7938 :

Bugatti T35TC (T35B)
Ch. No. : 4938
Engine No : 192T
Delivered to Chiron in Paris during July 1929.
Raced in the 1929 French Grand Prix and now (2004) in the UK.

Question : If this replica was given a chassis number of a car not known to survive, what would the process be of trying to pass it off as a restored original?

Oh , by the way Stuart, I have only found 1 photo reversed : On page 57; photo 5.16; the crashed Vizcaya car - the gear-lever and handbrake is on the wrong side. May I please have the following hint : How many remain, and are they all photographs, or are some illustrations?

Allow me to conclude with a statement : In my opinion it is better to race replicas than original cars. Discussion please.

Kind Regards
Johan Buchner

The fake-4938 had been offered last year already on eBay - as normal private auction - , and we discussed this already here:
http://www.bugattibuilder.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=332

Now it is fully described as Pur Sang replica, but at last year's auction the text was somewhat fishy. If I remember correct the engine and some other parts had been claimed being original, and the car was declared for being acepted by the American Bugatti Club. All of course bullshit as the actual sale shows.

The car was auctioned twice, first auction ended at $ 160.000, 2nd at $ 155.000, but the reserve was not reached. However, exactly the price which has been achieved now, and in line with the price for a new Pur Sang replica. I sent the seller an eMail warning him about the juridical risks because the real #4938 is still existing in the hands of a German collector. Seem that he really learned from that.

Dear Michael

It is thanks to enthusiasts of your calibre and integrity, that the Bugatti community will be able to rid itself of the criminals who rape this precious heritage. It will, however, be a long and difficult process.

I wish you strength and determination.

With Much Admiration
Johan Buchner

Take it from one who knows - being a Bugatti enthusiast and being a con-merchant are NOT mutually exclusive. There are plenty of high-up members of the European Bugatti establishments who have invented spurious histories for their cars and passed-off fake components as orginal Molsheim. A deceased, but highly respected, pillar of the England Bugatti establishment had a corner of his garden reserved for brand new "Brescia" chassis being allowed to a acquire a nice patina of corrosion.

Myself , I have a built-up "Bugatti" with a chassis which is said to have been built in the seventies. It has suffered so much neglect and abuse it is difficult to believe that it isn't original.

Hello all,
where to start. I think, I'm a real enthusiast of old Cars, in the last ten years, of Pre-War Racing Cars, without being, one of the handful historians, like Johan said in another thread, knowing some things, of long forgotten Cars.
I startet at the end of the 70th, with Alfa Romeo Sports Cars and drove these Cars for more than 1 Million Km's. In 1994 I emigrated to Chile and built me a Race prepared Jaguar XK 140. Later I drove typical Sports Cars of the 50th and 60th and I grew up with my Cars.
In 1997, I drove the Milles Milas in Argentina and came in contact, with two Dutch guys, doing a World Trip, with their Bugatti T 46 S. They left their Cars three Month in my Garage, here in Chile and I, went driving Bugattis, with my former Boss. My ex Boss owns about 300 old Cars, mostly American Pre-War, which I never enjoyed driving. We found out, that Bugatti driving is different, even loaded with 500 Kilo of Spares and with a good power. The Dutch guys, drove them at the Highway, with ca. 150 Km-h speeds.
My Boss was so impressed, that he sent me to Europe, finding him a Bugatti 35 and some other european cars.
That was a difficult task, cause most Bugattis are Fakes, or rebuilt around some Pieces, maybe faked earlier.
I remember in the 80th, that everytime, when a Bugatti 35 was auctioned, there was written, there is another Car, using the same Chassisnumber.... Maybe in the 80th the people were more honest, I don't know.
In Spain, I was with a big collector, who iniciated Anandon, doing Bugattis.
Before it was known, he searched for missing Bugattis in Spain, claimed, that he found parts and sent these parts to Argentina, to restore complete Cars, with original papers. These Cars came back to Spain as 'Originals'. Then he sent the Cars to a Specialist in the South of France, to rebuilt them as close as possible, as Originals. I have seen in France a Barn of Cars, from Bugatti to Maserati, dusted up, waiting for someone, to find them. There were more than 40 Cars, mostly made by Anandon, some with original parts, which they found in France. There was an other Barn in Spain and I bought to PS Replicas, one complete, french modificated, with FIA Papers and another in Pieces, which I drove, with Roller Bearings, around 4000 Km, in 11 Years. I really enjoy this little Recreation every Meter. Am I a Criminal for this? Do I any damage to Bugatti and their Heritage? Or is it not allowed, to a normal Person, with a normal income, to join the Pre War Race Car Club?
Maybe it's only for the Upper class, to do some historic events, with fake Cars. Is it allowed, for well known Collectors, to recreate, or modify Cars?
Isn't it funny, that mostly Dealers and Auctionhouses and 'Experts' are involved, in faking history, of many Cars, to push the Value up, even claiming, that Cars are sold, without being sold?

Maybe I'm a Criminal, for driving a original PS Replica, with Magneto, Rollerbearings and a Bugatti Badge, but a happy one, feeling like 'Chiron'.
My Car is not for sale, but maybe in future, I will change her against a Alfa Monza, or for a Maserati Tipo 26 Replica. Can't pay for an Original, but I like to drive and enjoy, as much as possible and I do like Bugattis, but I can't admire Ettore, not for his Genius, or his way of living.
But the T 35 is one of the all time great and I thank him for this.

Regards
Jörg

Myself , I have a built-up "Bugatti" with a chassis which is said to have been built in the seventies. It has suffered so much neglect and abuse it is difficult to believe that it isn't original.[/quote]

Enjoy it !!!

Regards
Jörg

Gentlemen

I fear my reply to Michael has led to a rather serious misunderstanding. As far as Bugattis are concerned : To knowingly sell a replica as an original is a crime. To own a replica Bugatti is an (relatively?) affordable way to the Bugatti experience, and I sincerely hope that all of you get an enormous amount of enjoyment out of your cars. From what I understand from your posts you know the exact history of your vehicles, and should the time come to sell them, you will pass this information on to the new owner, satisfied in the knowledge that lack of originality does not in any way diminish the enjoyment of said vehicle.

What drives me insane with rage are those individuals (I am so tempted to use another word) who invent spurious histories, and apply them to replicas for mere financial gain. I take great comfort from historians like Michael Muller. Not only does he have the knowledge to spot a fake being advertised as original, but he will not be silenced. This makes him a most admirable human being and I, for one, am truly grateful to him.

Ownership of a replica is equally admirable; it is deception that I despise. I congratulate each of you for being in the fortunate position to own such great cars.

I trust that I have now cleared up any misconception as to my exact meaning when I make reference to a crime or a criminal.

Kind Regards
Johan Buchner

In the other thread I posted this:


Basically I still stand for that. But....!
It will be impossible to register such car as new in the EU!
No catalytic converter, no seatbelts, no crash tests - the list of actual regulations valid for NEW cars is extremely long. The only way to get it legally on the road is as original car....

So even if an actual owner considers it as replica, and also sells it as replica, what will the next owner do??

Isn't it easier to get one on the road as a kit-car?

Most regulations are easier for somebody who is building a car for himself, let's say a one off. If you build your own Bugatti from scratch (I know of quite a few people who do so, with sometimes many, sometimes few original parts), it is usually possible to register this car. No crash test needed. Isn't it a possibility to get a replica registered this way?

Of course, I don't know much about regulations...

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To get it registered as a kit car should be possible. It can be needed that the car has to be assembled in the destination country (The Netherlands for me). Actually, that is quite easy: Import the car as being "scrap". Have the bonnet removed, the bodywork, and the radiator. This way my father was able to import a Mazda B2600 from Belgium.

However, I suspect customs are more difficult today...

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